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Re: About dwarves and their connection with nordic myth ...

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  • Jason Fisher
    ... That may be true, yes. Zoëga has: dvala, v. to delay, put off dvalan, f. prolongation And other similar words. I ve also seen the meaning torpid but
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
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      > Also, noting Turkam's speculation of possible meanings for
      > some dwarf names, is it true, as the (groan) Encyclopedia of
      > Arda says, that "Dwalin" could mean "dawdler" in Old Norse?
      > And could that explain the exceptionally long life of the first
      > dwarf to appear in The Hobbit?

      That may be true, yes. Zoëga has:

      dvala, v. to delay, put off
      dvalan, f. prolongation

      And other similar words. I've also seen the meaning "torpid" but haven't tried to track that down yet. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm currently doing work on this stuff.

      Jason Fisher

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John D Rateliff
      ... I doubt it; Dvalin is one of the most famous of all dwarves in the Old Norse material, famed (among other things) as a great craftsman, and not notable for
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
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        On Dec 1, 2006, at 5:26 PM, not_thou wrote:
        > Encyclopedia of Arda says, that "Dwalin" could mean "dawdler" in Old
        > Norse? And could that explain the exceptionally long life of the
        > first dwarf to appear in The Hobbit?

        I doubt it; Dvalin is one of the most famous of all dwarves in the
        Old Norse material, famed (among other things) as a great craftsman,
        and not notable for any "dawdling". In any case, the apparent
        "exceptionally long life" of Tolkien's character is I think the
        result of an error in the reckoning, not any intent on Tolkien's part
        to make him the Old Took of dwarves (that distinction belonging
        instead to Durin the First). Although, that said, it is very like
        Tolkien to add things to characters based on subsequent research that
        were not part of his initial inspiration; I just doubt that is the
        case in this instance.

        > Side-note: are my messages too long? I have noticed several
        > references on this list to matters deemed too complicated for this
        > format.

        There are no rules for length, so far as I know, but short posts are
        more likely to get responded to that long, complex ones. Changing
        headers to reflect changing focus of a post is always welcome. And
        trimming texts being responded to down to the relevant sections is
        definitely good form.

        Re. 'Tolkien Studies' vs. 'Middle-earth Studies', I think it's a
        false dichotomy to divide them. Some things I'm interested in might
        fall in one category, some in the other, and some cut across both.
        It's like trying to divide Lit from Lang; it's better to consider
        both aspects together.

        As for Brooke-Rose, it's been too long since I read her for me to
        respond in detail, but I thought at the time that her chief
        shortcoming was that she was writing a book about fantasy without any
        clear idea of what fantasy was, which made her comments seem random
        and unfocused.

        --JDR

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anglin Turcam
        ... Great Pyre? Thank s, it s perhaps after Mr John D Ratelif the only positive opinion about this fact. I m very sad to not write as goodly as I want to speak
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
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          To William Cloud Hicklin :
          >> Could it be that you're right: these names in fact did inspire the
          Great Pyre?
          Thank's, it's perhaps after Mr John D Ratelif the only positive opinion
          about this fact. I'm very sad to not write as goodly as I want to speak
          about my point of view of my 'paradox' for the 'editorial concession'
          conceded by Pr Tolkien about his dwarves and their possible relation
          with Old norse ones. I'm afraid that I have to say that I'm not agree
          with that fact commonly accepted by all the Tolkien Community ... there
          are too much things to much details to much words that make me think
          that Tolkien did really take a lot of things from Norse Dwarves (
          perhaps even to Norse Cosmogology about them ) to speak about a
          simple 'concession'. I want to go farther than Mr Shippey did realy
          goood about them, farther than the lots of ones that speak only about
          the Names occuring in Völuspá ...


          To Jason :
          >> so I'd be curious to hear more about your work off-list (as you
          suggested it was too complicated for the list). Drop me a line if you'd
          like ...

          Check your MailBox Jason ;)

          >> I'd actually be interested in this too, I'm preparing lecture notes
          on Tolkien's dwarves for a Tolkien class I'm teaching next semester.

          I work also about other interrestings things about Tolkien's dwarves
          like death/size/women/magical object (in fact in Letters Tolkien
          says 'Magic is Art' and the dwarves are Aulë childrens ....). Did you
          read french freely ?
          I can tell you that your lecture notes can be very interresting to me
          if you can send them to my mailbox ?

          Anglin.
        • alexeik@aol.com
          ... From: solicitr@mindspring.com To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 7:02 PM Subject: [mythsoc] Re: About dwarves and their connection with
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: solicitr@...
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 7:02 PM
            Subject: [mythsoc] Re: About dwarves and their connection with nordic myth ...

            Although I
            believe he cribbed the Brandybucks' names (Meriadoc,
            Gorbadoc, Saradoc) from Medieval Welsh. <<

            That, and even more from mediaeval Cornish and Breton. Alexei >
            .
            AActuaActua
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Larry Swain
            ... Anglin, I ll be happy to send them along when I ve finished them, pretty basic though. And yes, I read French. ljs --
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 4, 2006
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              >
              > I work also about other interrestings things about Tolkien's dwarves
              > like death/size/women/magical object (in fact in Letters Tolkien
              > says 'Magic is Art' and the dwarves are Aulë childrens ....). Did you
              > read french freely ?
              > I can tell you that your lecture notes can be very interresting to me
              > if you can send them to my mailbox ?
              >
              > Anglin.
              >

              Anglin,

              I'll be happy to send them along when I've finished them, pretty basic though. And yes, I read French.

              ljs

              --
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