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Re: [mythsoc] Re: J. Chance

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  • David Emerson
    ... I was there, and my impression was that she was insisting that she was absolutely right and he was absolutely wrong, and that she was prepared to dig in
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 28, 2006
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      >From: Jason Fisher <visualweasel@...>
      >
      >Anybody who was at the Marquette conference in 2004
      >will remember Jane Chance more or less "heckling" Mike
      >Drout during the Q&A for his paper. Is "heckling" too
      >strong a word? Perhaps I should have said she "strenuously
      >challenged" Mike on a point or two.

      I was there, and my impression was that she was insisting that she was absolutely right and he was absolutely wrong, and that she was prepared to dig in and argue until he admitted the "obvious" correctness of her position. Fortunately, he made some conciliatory let's-agree-to-disagree type of statement from the podium and moved on. (dot org)


      emerdavid

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    • Jason Fisher
      ... Point taken, Carl. I think most of the discussion has been perfectly a propos; however, in a few cases, comments may have crossed the line (e.g., the
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 30, 2006
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        > Think how you would feel if you were being talked about in this
        > manner (rightly or wrongly) on this list.

        Point taken, Carl. I think most of the discussion has been perfectly a propos; however, in a few cases, comments may have crossed the line (e.g., the television interview comments, IMO). Nobody's perfect -- not Jane Chance, not Mike Drout, not me, not any of us; and I suppose it's easy to forget that and get carried away picking on one particular person for one particular action.

        Jason

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Larry Swain
        Best of luck tomorrow Walter!! You should consider working up an article or two based on the beast and submit it to Mythlore. ... --
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 30, 2006
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          Best of luck tomorrow Walter!! You should consider working up an article or two based on the beast and submit it to Mythlore.
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > Thanks, Mr. Bratman.
          >
          > Wow! Think about it. "Walter... said such and such..." I never thought I
          > would say anything of mention on this list.
          >
          > I can't wait to send you a copy of my thesis. It's about Myth and Ideology.
          >
          > If you've not seen my blog on the thing (which I think you might have...)
          > It is:
          >
          > www.artofthemetaphysicalmind.blogspot.com
          >
          > I defend it tomorrow. My committee dropped Charles Nicol as the chair. He
          > was replaced by Don Jennermann, who was the chair of the Humanities dept.
          > before he retired. The whole committee is Emeritus professors, except Tom
          > Derrick, a Harvard PhD who is still full-time faculty in the English dept.
          > at ISU.
          >
          > It's a load off to be done with that monster. I have behaved like an
          > agitated champagne bottle with its cork just loosed. All this stuff is just
          > coming out of me now. You are all so much a part of my thinking and its
          > development in terms of "sensibilities" about Tolkien's Silmarillion.
          >
          > "Thanks" is not in the right category. I hope we all can make a mess of my
          > thesis together. Perhaps I'll see if I can get the list administrator to
          > post it in the files section of this group.
          >
          > We shall see....
          >
          > Thanks, David. And thanks to the mysoc list for helping to keep me a little
          > more grounded in reality these days..
          >
          > Sincerely, Walter.
          >
          >
          > On 11/30/06, David Bratman <dbratman@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > At 08:18 AM 11/30/2006 -0600, Beth Russell wrote:
          > >
          > > >And *yet*, And *yet*, I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread that
          > > >year after year she organizes Tolkien discussion groups at the MLA
          > > >meetings. Even when not maybe a wise thing to do in those circles.
          > >
          > > True enough. I just don't think any of these things cancel each other out.
          > > Walter began this discussion by dredging up an old criticism I'd made of
          > > the two books on Tolkien that Chance wrote herself, and I stand by that
          > > remark, as may be seen in my survey of the reprints (Tolkien Studies 2, p.
          > > 300). But it's a very mild criticism: see p. 295 of the same essay for my
          > > comments on Michael White's biography, the worst book on Tolkien ever
          > > published. (Yes, worse than William Ready, who at least had the
          > > compensating virtue of being too incoherent to cause much harm.)
          > >
          > > Of Prof. Chance's much-discussed audience comment at the Marquette
          > > symposium, I will just say that it was the only moment during the entire
          > > conference when I could not follow what the speaker was trying to say.
          > >
          > > None of this cancels out, or is cancelled out by, Prof. Chance's strong
          > > and
          > > continuing efforts at promoting Tolkien academically, and her tireless
          > > work
          > > at both organizing sessions and - amazingly - getting the results
          > > published. Three edited volumes on Tolkien and medievalism are a gigantic
          > > contribution, even if they could have been better selected and edited. I
          > > called the first of these an "outstanding collection" and "an uneven but
          > > highly ambitious book" (Tolkien Studies 3, p. 241).
          > >
          > > David Bratman
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

          >


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        • Walter Padgett
          WOW !!!!!!!!! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 30, 2006
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            WOW !!!!!!!!!

            On 11/30/06, Larry Swain <theswain@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Best of luck tomorrow Walter!! You should consider working up an article
            > or two based on the beast and submit it to Mythlore.
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > Thanks, Mr. Bratman.
            > >
            > > Wow! Think about it. "Walter... said such and such..." I never thought I
            > > would say anything of mention on this list.
            > >
            > > I can't wait to send you a copy of my thesis. It's about Myth and
            > Ideology.
            > >
            > > If you've not seen my blog on the thing (which I think you might
            > have...)
            > > It is:
            > >
            > > www.artofthemetaphysicalmind.blogspot.com
            > >
            > > I defend it tomorrow. My committee dropped Charles Nicol as the chair.
            > He
            > > was replaced by Don Jennermann, who was the chair of the Humanities
            > dept.
            > > before he retired. The whole committee is Emeritus professors, except
            > Tom
            > > Derrick, a Harvard PhD who is still full-time faculty in the English
            > dept.
            > > at ISU.
            > >
            > > It's a load off to be done with that monster. I have behaved like an
            > > agitated champagne bottle with its cork just loosed. All this stuff is
            > just
            > > coming out of me now. You are all so much a part of my thinking and its
            > > development in terms of "sensibilities" about Tolkien's Silmarillion.
            > >
            > > "Thanks" is not in the right category. I hope we all can make a mess of
            > my
            > > thesis together. Perhaps I'll see if I can get the list administrator to
            > > post it in the files section of this group.
            > >
            > > We shall see....
            > >
            > > Thanks, David. And thanks to the mysoc list for helping to keep me a
            > little
            > > more grounded in reality these days..
            > >
            > > Sincerely, Walter.
            > >
            > >
            > > On 11/30/06, David Bratman <dbratman@...<dbratman%40earthlink.net>>
            > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > At 08:18 AM 11/30/2006 -0600, Beth Russell wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >And *yet*, And *yet*, I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread that
            > > > >year after year she organizes Tolkien discussion groups at the MLA
            > > > >meetings. Even when not maybe a wise thing to do in those circles.
            > > >
            > > > True enough. I just don't think any of these things cancel each other
            > out.
            > > > Walter began this discussion by dredging up an old criticism I'd made
            > of
            > > > the two books on Tolkien that Chance wrote herself, and I stand by
            > that
            > > > remark, as may be seen in my survey of the reprints (Tolkien Studies
            > 2, p.
            > > > 300). But it's a very mild criticism: see p. 295 of the same essay for
            > my
            > > > comments on Michael White's biography, the worst book on Tolkien ever
            > > > published. (Yes, worse than William Ready, who at least had the
            > > > compensating virtue of being too incoherent to cause much harm.)
            > > >
            > > > Of Prof. Chance's much-discussed audience comment at the Marquette
            > > > symposium, I will just say that it was the only moment during the
            > entire
            > > > conference when I could not follow what the speaker was trying to say.
            > > >
            > > > None of this cancels out, or is cancelled out by, Prof. Chance's
            > strong
            > > > and
            > > > continuing efforts at promoting Tolkien academically, and her tireless
            > > > work
            > > > at both organizing sessions and - amazingly - getting the results
            > > > published. Three edited volumes on Tolkien and medievalism are a
            > gigantic
            > > > contribution, even if they could have been better selected and edited.
            > I
            > > > called the first of these an "outstanding collection" and "an uneven
            > but
            > > > highly ambitious book" (Tolkien Studies 3, p. 241).
            > > >
            > > > David Bratman
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > _______________________________________________
            > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
            > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
            >
            > Powered by Outblaze
            >
            >
            >


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