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Re: [mythsoc] Silmarillion dramatization(s)

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  • David Emerson
    ... Right on! Years ago, I started pondering how SIL could be made as accessible to the public imagination as LOTR already is. An operatic cycle was my first
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 21, 2006
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      >Oh, the Silmarillion is =several= operas. My Tolkien discussion
      >group once decided that the tale of Turin would make a trilogy of
      >operas in the Wagnerian style, the story of Beren and Luthien
      >should be a ballet, and the Fall of Gondolin a disaster movie!

      Right on!

      Years ago, I started pondering how SIL could be made as accessible to the public imagination as LOTR already is. An operatic cycle was my first thought. Then it evolved into a BBC-produced maxiseries of at least 14 hours (think Ken Burns meets JEWEL IN THE CROWN, but with action).

      emerdavid

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    • Debra Murphy
      I have a hard time imagining much of SIL being made into a movie, at least much of the first half of it or so. But in accessibility terms, I often recommend
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 22, 2006
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        I have a hard time imagining much of SIL being made into a movie, at least much of the first half of it or so.

        But in "accessibility" terms, I often recommend the Martin Shaw audiobook to folks who've never read it before, or who started to read it, then quit because it was too "dense", or whatever. Somehow, hearing it read by Shaw, who has a beautiful, rich voice, brings out the almost biblical poetry of the thing.

        Debra Murphy
        www.idyllspress.com

        >Years ago, I started pondering how SIL could be made as accessible to the public imagination as LOTR already is. An operatic cycle was my first thought. Then it evolved into a BBC-produced maxiseries of at least 14 hours (think Ken Burns meets JEWEL IN THE CROWN, but with action).
        >
        >emerdavid
        >
      • Mike Foster
        Ellen Denham has already done a ballet version based on the story of Beren and Luthien; she spoke on it and showed some excerpts on video at Mythcon 2004. As
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 22, 2006
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          Ellen Denham has already done a ballet version based on the story of
          Beren and Luthien; she spoke on it and showed some excerpts on video at
          Mythcon 2004. As I recall, the estate was reluctant to give her rights
          so the names were changed.

          At a community college Phi Theta Kappa event up in Chicago Heights back
          in 2002 or so, I met a young film student from Texas who envisioned The
          Silmarillion as a series of animated cartoons that he wanted to
          produce. I wished him the best of luck with getting permission to do so
          and have heard no more about the project.

          Debra Murphy wrote:

          > I have a hard time imagining much of SIL being made into a movie, at
          > least much of the first half of it or so.
          >
          > But in "accessibility" terms, I often recommend the Martin Shaw
          > audiobook to folks who've never read it before, or who started to read
          > it, then quit because it was too "dense", or whatever. Somehow,
          > hearing it read by Shaw, who has a beautiful, rich voice, brings out
          > the almost biblical poetry of the thing.
          >
          > Debra Murphy
          > www.idyllspress.com
          >
          > >Years ago, I started pondering how SIL could be made as accessible to
          > the public imagination as LOTR already is. An operatic cycle was my
          > first thought. Then it evolved into a BBC-produced maxiseries of at
          > least 14 hours (think Ken Burns meets JEWEL IN THE CROWN, but with
          > action).
          > >
          > >emerdavid
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Walter Padgett
          what is biblical poetry? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 22, 2006
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            what is "biblical" poetry?




            On 11/22/06, Debra Murphy <dlm@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have a hard time imagining much of SIL being made into a movie, at
            > least much of the first half of it or so.
            >
            > But in "accessibility" terms, I often recommend the Martin Shaw audiobook
            > to folks who've never read it before, or who started to read it, then quit
            > because it was too "dense", or whatever. Somehow, hearing it read by Shaw,
            > who has a beautiful, rich voice, brings out the almost biblical poetry of
            > the thing.
            >
            > Debra Murphy
            > www.idyllspress.com
            >
            > >Years ago, I started pondering how SIL could be made as accessible to the
            > public imagination as LOTR already is. An operatic cycle was my first
            > thought. Then it evolved into a BBC-produced maxiseries of at least 14 hours
            > (think Ken Burns meets JEWEL IN THE CROWN, but with action).
            > >
            > >emerdavid
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Debra Murphy
            Say, rather, Walter, poetic diction with a (to me) biblical feel. Particularly the earlier part of the book, more remote in time. Hearing Shaw read it, I was
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 22, 2006
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              Say, rather, Walter, poetic diction with a (to me) biblical feel. Particularly the earlier part of the book, more remote in time. Hearing Shaw read it, I was reminded continually of Genesis. It didn't have the same effect on me as reading it silently--it was far better.

              (There is, of course, such a thing, literally, as "biblical poetry", as in the Psalms, or Song of Songs, though that wasn't quite what I was thinking of.)

              I'm reminded, too, of an excellent recent op ed piece by Stephen King in ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY in support of audiobooks--he was taking issue with some of Harold Bloom's more curmudgeonly comments on same. King pointed out, and I agree with him, that many a bad writer can get by as at least tolerable on the page--he mentioned Tom Clancy by name--but the minute such a book is read aloud by a good reader, the deficiencies became painfully obvious.

              In the case of SIL, I found myself falling in love with the book when I heard it read aloud, though it initially left me a bit cold when I read it on the page. Given Tolkien's own passion for philology, and particularly his aesthetic passion for the sound of certain languages and words, I couldn't help but wonder if he "heard" it more than "read" it when he was writing it, if you know what I mean. In fact, I'd be very curious if any critical work has been done on this aspect of JRRT as a writer--if anyone knows of any, please let me know.

              Debra Murphy
              www.idyllspress.com

              ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
              From: "Walter Padgett" <wpadgett@...>
              Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:40:31 -0500

              >what is "biblical" poetry?
            • Walter Padgett
              Yes Debra, I have listened to Shaw s reading of _The Silmarillion_ many times, myself. But I can t help but have some bewildering problems with the variety of
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 26, 2006
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                Yes Debra,

                I have listened to Shaw's reading of _The Silmarillion_ many times,
                myself. But I can't help but have some bewildering problems with the
                variety of wonders presented in his fascinating rendition of that
                particular edition of Christopher Tolkien's translation of his
                father's works on the history of Middle-earth.

                How, for example, can we know that Shaw's pronunciation is correct?
                Maybe it's quite different from what Tolkien intended.

                What kind of a linguist could recover Christopher Tolkien's actual
                pronunciation at the time he read _The Silmarillion_ aloud to himself?

                These are questions that can be answered today.

                Thanks, Walter.


                On 11/23/06, Walter Padgett <wpadgett@...> wrote:
                > what if he read it aloud to himself?
                >
                >
                > On 11/22/06, Debra Murphy <dlm@...> wrote:
                >
                >> > In the case of SIL, I found myself falling in love with the book
                when I heard it read aloud, though it initially left me a bit cold
                when I read it on the page. Given Tolkien's own passion for philology,
                and particularly his aesthetic passion for the sound of certain
                languages and words, I couldn't help but wonder if he "heard" it more
                than "read" it when he was writing it, if you know what I mean. In
                fact, I'd be very curious if any critical work has been done on this
                aspect of JRRT as a writer--if anyone knows of any, please let me
                know.
                > >
                > > Debra Murphy
                > > www.idyllspress.com
                > >
                > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                > > From: "Walter Padgett" < wpadgett@...>
                > > Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:40:31 -0500
                > >
                > > >what is "biblical" poetry?
                > >
                > >
                > > Messages in this topic (5) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
                > > Messages | Members
                > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              • Carl F. Hostetter
                ... We can know that it far too frequently _isn t_ correct, by comparing his pronunciations with Tolkien s own notes on pronunciation of Quenya and Sindarin. I
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 26, 2006
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                  On Nov 26, 2006, at 2:09 PM, Walter Padgett wrote:
                  > How, for example, can we know that Shaw's pronunciation is correct?
                  We can know that it far too frequently _isn't_ correct, by comparing
                  his pronunciations with Tolkien's own notes on pronunciation of
                  Quenya and Sindarin. I for one have never made it past the first
                  track of Shaw's recording, since he manages to mangle therein at
                  least three words in very short order:

                  _Ainulindale_, which should be like "eye-noo-LIN-dah-leh", but comes
                  out as "eye-noo-LIN-duh-luh");

                  _Eru_, which should be like "AIR-oo", but comes out as "AIR-oom"; and

                  _Il├║vatar_, which should be like "ill-OO-vah-tar", but comes out at
                  first as "ILL-oo-va-tar" and later as "ill-oo-VA-tar".
                • Joan.Marie.Verba@sff.net
                  Just for the record, Christopher Tolkien did record his reading of (parts of) The Silmarillion. I bought the record (though I m currently offering it for sale
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 26, 2006
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                    Just for the record, Christopher Tolkien did record his reading of (parts of)
                    The Silmarillion. I bought the record (though I'm currently offering it for
                    sale on eBay).

                    Joan
                  • Margaret Dean
                    ... Actually there were at least two LPs recorded by Christopher Tolkien (because I remember the covers); IIRC one was The Darkening of Valinor and the Flight
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 26, 2006
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                      Joan.Marie.Verba@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Just for the record, Christopher Tolkien did record his reading of (parts of)
                      > The Silmarillion. I bought the record (though I'm currently offering it for
                      > sale on eBay).

                      Actually there were at least two LPs recorded by Christopher
                      Tolkien (because I remember the covers); IIRC one was The
                      Darkening of Valinor and the Flight of the Noldor (with picture
                      of Taniquetil) and the other the tale of Beren and Luthien (?)
                      (with map of Beleriand, in green?). I believe I still have both
                      of them though I can no longer play them.


                      --Margaret Dean
                      <margdean@...>
                    • David Bratman
                      Both of CT s Silmarillion readings albums are on CD as part of The J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection which also includes the albums of JRRT s Hobbit, LOTR, and
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 26, 2006
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                        Both of CT's Silmarillion readings albums are on CD as part of "The J.R.R.
                        Tolkien Audio Collection" which also includes the albums of JRRT's Hobbit,
                        LOTR, and ATB readings. The CD set is still in print.

                        David Bratman


                        At 08:35 PM 11/26/2006 -0500, Margaret Dean wrote:

                        >
                        > <mailto:Joan.Marie.Verba%40sff.net>Joan.Marie.Verba@... wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Just for the record, Christopher Tolkien did record his reading of (parts
                        > of)
                        > > The Silmarillion. I bought the record (though I'm currently offering it for
                        > > sale on eBay).
                        >
                        > Actually there were at least two LPs recorded by Christopher
                        > Tolkien (because I remember the covers); IIRC one was The
                        > Darkening of Valinor and the Flight of the Noldor (with picture
                        > of Taniquetil) and the other the tale of Beren and Luthien (?)
                        > (with map of Beleriand, in green?). I believe I still have both
                        > of them though I can no longer play them.
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