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Fw: Tolkien film-thanks (and conference info)

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  • Edith.Crowe@sjsu.edu
    Edith L. Crowe | (408) 808-2037 | edith.crowe@sjsu.edu Corresponding Secretary of the Mythopoeic Society (http://www.mythsoc.org) ... Lynn Forest-Hill
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 14, 2006
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      Edith L. Crowe | (408) 808-2037 | edith.crowe@...
      Corresponding Secretary of the Mythopoeic Society (http://www.mythsoc.org)
      ----- Forwarded by Edith Crowe/SJSU on 08/14/2006 11:04 AM -----

      "Lynn Forest-Hill" <lynnevda@...>
      08/09/2006 06:16 AM

      To
      "janet alvarez" <humbuckinhoney@...>, "Pat Reynolds"
      <pat@...>, "Michael Cunningham" <vargeisa@...>,
      "Brian Rosebury" <bjrosebury@...>, "Leana Ahmed"
      <leana_ahmed@...>, "Dr D J Millar" <djm@...>,
      "Elena Maestri" <maestri@...>, <sacnoth@...>,
      <Edith.Crowe@...>
      cc

      Subject
      Tolkien film-thanks




      BlankTo everyone who was kind enough to help with the Tolkien Society
      enquiry on behalf of a lecturer - the course for which the film was being
      sought is as follows:

      Honors Seminar "Tolkien the
      Mythmaker" at St. Francis College (which is in Brooklyn, New York City),
      this coming Spring term.

      In addition, we have the following information from St Francis College:

      Departments of English and Religious Studies of St. Francis College will
      co-sponsor with the Northeast Tolkien Society a conference commemorating
      the 30th anniversary of the publication of The Silmarillion. Stand by for
      details. It will be April 20-22 at the College.

      More information about this conference will be made available in due
      course, and among other places, it will be posted on the Tolkien Society
      web pages.
      Many thanks to all those who helped locate the film.
      Best wishes,
      Lynn



      Lynn Forest-Hill PhD
      Education Officer
      Tolkien Society

      Fellow of the Centre for Antiquity and the Middle Ages
      University of Southampton
      Southampton UK



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Anthony and Jessica
      Thanks Edith and Lynn for the info, just a thought to all about the Silmarillion Conference the below text refers to, Jessica and I are indeed working with St.
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 15, 2006
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        Thanks Edith and Lynn for the info, just a thought to all about the
        Silmarillion Conference the below text refers to, Jessica and I are
        indeed working with St. Francis College to organize this event. Our
        initial thought for a Guest of Honor, Keynote Speaker, Verlyn Flieger,
        unfortunately is unable to commit at this time, we have some thoughts
        in regards to someone else, but are open to suggestions from our
        fellow mythies who are more learned on the Silmarillion and its
        scholars than we are.

        Best,
        Anthony and Jessica


        > Subject
        > Tolkien film-thanks

        > BlankTo everyone who was kind enough to help with the Tolkien Society
        > enquiry on behalf of a lecturer - the course for which the film was
        being
        > sought is as follows:
        >
        > Honors Seminar "Tolkien the
        > Mythmaker" at St. Francis College (which is in Brooklyn, New York
        City),
        > this coming Spring term.
        >
        > In addition, we have the following information from St Francis College:
        >
        > Departments of English and Religious Studies of St. Francis College
        will
        > co-sponsor with the Northeast Tolkien Society a conference
        commemorating
        > the 30th anniversary of the publication of The Silmarillion. Stand
        by for
        > details. It will be April 20-22 at the College.
        >
        > More information about this conference will be made available in due
        > course, and among other places, it will be posted on the Tolkien
        Society
        > web pages.
        > Many thanks to all those who helped locate the film.
        > Best wishes,
        > Lynn
        >
        >
        >
        > Lynn Forest-Hill PhD
        > Education Officer
        > Tolkien Society
        >
        > Fellow of the Centre for Antiquity and the Middle Ages
        > University of Southampton
        > Southampton UK
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • John D Rateliff
        Has Michael O Brien s A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: THE BATTLE FOR YOUR CHILD S MIND (previously published as A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: CHRISTIAN AND PAGAN
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 26, 2006
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          Has Michael O'Brien's A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: THE BATTLE FOR YOUR
          CHILD'S MIND (previously published as A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS:
          CHRISTIAN AND PAGAN IMAGINATION IN CHILDREN'S LITERATURE) been
          discussed on this list before? And if so can somebody point me toward
          that discussion? Just got a copy, but don't want to bore folks if
          it's already been thoroughly hashed out before I joined the list.

          --John R.

          current reading: ANCIENT EGYPTIAN LITERATURE vol. III, tr. Miriam
          Lichtheim
        • David Emerson
          Haven t heard of it before, but from the updated title, I take it this is one of those fundamentalist fantasy is anti-Christian screeds?? Either that, or the
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 26, 2006
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            Haven't heard of it before, but from the updated title, I take it this is one of those fundamentalist "fantasy is anti-Christian" screeds??

            Either that, or the marketing of acdemic books is getting WAY out of hand.


            -----Original Message-----
            >From: John D Rateliff <sacnoth@...>
            >Sent: Aug 26, 2006 3:09 PM
            >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [mythsoc] A Landscape with Dragons
            >
            >Has Michael O'Brien's A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: THE BATTLE FOR YOUR
            >CHILD'S MIND (previously published as A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS:
            >CHRISTIAN AND PAGAN IMAGINATION IN CHILDREN'S LITERATURE) been
            >discussed on this list before?

            ________________________________________
            PeoplePC Online
            A better way to Internet
            http://www.peoplepc.com
          • Jonathan Michael Reiter
            That would be about right. Jonathan Michael Reiter jmr ... From: David Emerson To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 26, 2006
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              That would be about right.
              Jonathan Michael Reiter
              jmr
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: David Emerson
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 4:46 PM
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] A Landscape with Dragons


              Haven't heard of it before, but from the updated title, I take it this is one of those fundamentalist "fantasy is anti-Christian" screeds??

              Either that, or the marketing of acdemic books is getting WAY out of hand.

              -----Original Message-----
              >From: John D Rateliff <sacnoth@...>
              >Sent: Aug 26, 2006 3:09 PM
              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [mythsoc] A Landscape with Dragons
              >
              >Has Michael O'Brien's A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: THE BATTLE FOR YOUR
              >CHILD'S MIND (previously published as A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS:
              >CHRISTIAN AND PAGAN IMAGINATION IN CHILDREN'S LITERATURE) been
              >discussed on this list before?

              ________________________________________
              PeoplePC Online
              A better way to Internet
              http://www.peoplepc.com





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Matthew Winslow
              ... John, I don t recall it being discussed here. ... While I disagree strongly with O Brien s conclusions, I must come to his defense that the book was much
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 27, 2006
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                On 27 Aug 2006 07:21:31 -0000, John wrote:
                > Has Michael O'Brien's A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: THE BATTLE FOR YOUR
                > CHILD'S MIND (previously published as A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS:
                > CHRISTIAN AND PAGAN IMAGINATION IN CHILDREN'S LITERATURE) been
                > discussed on this list before? And if so can somebody point me toward
                > that discussion? Just got a copy, but don't want to bore folks if
                > it's already been thoroughly hashed out before I joined the list.

                John,

                I don't recall it being discussed here.

                Jonathan Michael Reiter wrote:
                > > Haven't heard of it before, but from the updated title, I take it this is one of those fundamentalist "fantasy is anti-Christian" screeds??
                >
                > That would be about right.

                While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                and committing sin. (Dragons, of course, being related to serpents,
                whom the Bible depicts as symbols of evil, not to mention the evil
                dragon from Revelation.) For O'Brien there is some redeemable fantasy,
                but that list is extremely limited. I haven't read the book in a
                number of years, so I can't recall what he found redeemable.

                --
                Matthew Winslow
                mwinslow@...
                www.xreal.org

                Currently Reading: The Mayor of Casterbridge by Thomas Hardy
              • David Emerson
                ... Well, he s got two assumptions there that are open to question. One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are evil. Call me a heretic
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 27, 2006
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                  >While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                  >his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                  >O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                  >that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                  >always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                  >and committing sin.

                  Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question. One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?

                  emerdavid

                  ________________________________________
                  PeoplePC Online
                  A better way to Internet
                  http://www.peoplepc.com
                • Jonathan Michael Reiter
                  Yes, I believe the Chinese, and Japanese... I am not sure about that, but I will go looking, for sure about that... Jonathan Michael Reiter jmr ... From:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                    Yes, I believe the Chinese, and Japanese... I am not sure about that, but I will go looking, for sure about that...
                    Jonathan Michael Reiter
                    jmr
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: David Emerson
                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:30 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: A Landscape with Dragons


                    >While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                    >his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                    >O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                    >that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                    >always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                    >and committing sin.

                    Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question. One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?

                    emerdavid

                    ________________________________________
                    PeoplePC Online
                    A better way to Internet
                    http://www.peoplepc.com





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jef.murray
                    Symbols for a particular culture largely _don t_ change meaning...Jung s life work underscored this. And regarding other cultures, O Brien is basically dealing
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                      Symbols for a particular culture largely _don't_ change
                      meaning...Jung's life work underscored this. And regarding
                      other cultures, O'Brien is basically dealing with occidental
                      tradition and myth, which consistently (until the 20th century)
                      depicted snakes and dragons as evil.

                      Regarding the notion that anyone trying to make a dragon
                      good is "committing a sin", I think that overstates O'Brien's
                      case. He suggests that trying to change the meaning of traditional
                      symbols confuses and can be hurtful, especially to children. This
                      is consistent with a pre-modern mindset, which suggests that there
                      _is_ such a thing as tradition versus "all things being relative".
                      All O'Brien is doing is pointing out the same things that virtually
                      any European would have told you prior to about 100-150 years ago.

                      And, like Tolkien and Lewis, O'Brien would largely consider himself
                      pre-modern in outlook, and quite proud of it(!).

                      Jef


                      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                      > >his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                      > >O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                      > >that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                      > >always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                      > >and committing sin.
                      >
                      > Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question.
                      One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are
                      evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient
                      cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?
                      >
                      > emerdavid
                      >
                      > ________________________________________
                      > PeoplePC Online
                      > A better way to Internet
                      > http://www.peoplepc.com
                      >
                    • Mike Foster
                      Many readers, including quite possibly Lewis & Tolkien, would know about Kenneth Grahame s -The Reluctant Dragon-, and those familiar with Jef s art know he
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                        Many readers, including quite possibly Lewis & Tolkien, would know about
                        Kenneth Grahame's -The Reluctant Dragon-, and those familiar with Jef's
                        art know he does quite good representations of rather benevolent dragons
                        as well: parenthetical observation.

                        Mike

                        jef.murray wrote:

                        > Symbols for a particular culture largely _don't_ change
                        >meaning...Jung's life work underscored this. And regarding
                        >other cultures, O'Brien is basically dealing with occidental
                        >tradition and myth, which consistently (until the 20th century)
                        >depicted snakes and dragons as evil.
                        >
                        > Regarding the notion that anyone trying to make a dragon
                        >good is "committing a sin", I think that overstates O'Brien's
                        >case. He suggests that trying to change the meaning of traditional
                        >symbols confuses and can be hurtful, especially to children. This
                        >is consistent with a pre-modern mindset, which suggests that there
                        >_is_ such a thing as tradition versus "all things being relative".
                        >All O'Brien is doing is pointing out the same things that virtually
                        >any European would have told you prior to about 100-150 years ago.
                        >
                        > And, like Tolkien and Lewis, O'Brien would largely consider himself
                        >pre-modern in outlook, and quite proud of it(!).
                        >
                        > Jef
                        >
                        >
                        >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >>>While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                        >>>his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                        >>>O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                        >>>that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                        >>>always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                        >>>and committing sin.
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are
                        >evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient
                        >cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?
                        >
                        >
                        >>emerdavid
                        >>
                        >>________________________________________
                        >>PeoplePC Online
                        >>A better way to Internet
                        >>http://www.peoplepc.com
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Lezlie
                        ... I have to admit that I don t entirely agree with this (and, some modern Jungian scholar-practitioners don t either). Once, dragons in the west were
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                          >
                          > jef.murray wrote:
                          >
                          > > Symbols for a particular culture largely _don't_ change
                          > >meaning...Jung's life work underscored this. And regarding
                          > >other cultures, O'Brien is basically dealing with occidental
                          > >tradition and myth, which consistently (until the 20th century)
                          > >depicted snakes and dragons as evil.
                          > >

                          I have to admit that I don't entirely agree with this (and, some
                          modern Jungian scholar-practitioners don't either). Once, dragons in
                          the west were associated with the symbols of Kingship (re: the
                          Arthurian Cycle, and also: Charlemagne). At some point in the Middle
                          Ages, they became a symbol of "carnal knowledge" and of greed and
                          "avariciousness" -- as per: the Seven Deadlies. (A medieval scholar
                          could probably pinpoint the exact manuscripts, heraldic devices,
                          illuminations, references and et. al., and tell us the years when this
                          change occurred.) My sense is that there has always been a split
                          between the ecclesiastical writings on dragons and the folk lore itself.

                          The symbol has changed in modern times, possibly due to the many
                          current writers & artists in fantasy who have jointly created a
                          powerful, mysterious, paradoxical creature of fire and air over a
                          rather long period of time. Some of those writers have delved very
                          deep into the myth and lore concerning the long history of dragons and
                          their cousins, and should not be discounted lightly.

                          There also seems to be a mingling of East and West in the changing of
                          the dragon as a symbol. (As we all realize that Eastern dragons are
                          very different than Western ones.) One wonders just what Jung would
                          write about it were he alive today -- as he had something to say about
                          just about everything, an essay (at the very least) I'm sure. <gentle
                          smile> .

                          Lezlie
                        • jef.murray
                          Yes, but we both know, Mike, that dragons are deceptive. _Looking_ benevolent is is not at all the same as _behaving_ in a benevolent fashion ;-) Jef ... about
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                            Yes, but we both know, Mike, that dragons are deceptive.
                            _Looking_ benevolent is is not at all the same as _behaving_
                            in a benevolent fashion ;-)

                            Jef



                            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Many readers, including quite possibly Lewis & Tolkien, would know
                            about
                            > Kenneth Grahame's -The Reluctant Dragon-, and those familiar with Jef's
                            > art know he does quite good representations of rather benevolent
                            dragons
                            > as well: parenthetical observation.
                            >
                            > Mike
                            >
                            > jef.murray wrote:
                            >
                            > > Symbols for a particular culture largely _don't_ change
                            > >meaning...Jung's life work underscored this. And regarding
                            > >other cultures, O'Brien is basically dealing with occidental
                            > >tradition and myth, which consistently (until the 20th century)
                            > >depicted snakes and dragons as evil.
                            > >
                            > > Regarding the notion that anyone trying to make a dragon
                            > >good is "committing a sin", I think that overstates O'Brien's
                            > >case. He suggests that trying to change the meaning of traditional
                            > >symbols confuses and can be hurtful, especially to children. This
                            > >is consistent with a pre-modern mindset, which suggests that there
                            > >_is_ such a thing as tradition versus "all things being relative".
                            > >All O'Brien is doing is pointing out the same things that virtually
                            > >any European would have told you prior to about 100-150 years ago.
                            > >
                            > > And, like Tolkien and Lewis, O'Brien would largely consider himself
                            > >pre-modern in outlook, and quite proud of it(!).
                            > >
                            > > Jef
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >>>While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                            > >>>his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                            > >>>O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                            > >>>that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                            > >>>always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                            > >>>and committing sin.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question.
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are
                            > >evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient
                            > >cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >>emerdavid
                            > >>
                            > >>________________________________________
                            > >>PeoplePC Online
                            > >>A better way to Internet
                            > >>http://www.peoplepc.com
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Mike Foster
                            Never laugh at live dragons was one of the first proverbs Bilbo coined, after all. Mike ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                              "Never laugh at live dragons" was one of the first proverbs Bilbo
                              coined, after all.

                              Mike

                              jef.murray wrote:

                              > Yes, but we both know, Mike, that dragons are deceptive.
                              >_Looking_ benevolent is is not at all the same as _behaving_
                              >in a benevolent fashion ;-)
                              >
                              > Jef
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >>Many readers, including quite possibly Lewis & Tolkien, would know
                              >>
                              >>
                              >about
                              >
                              >
                              >>Kenneth Grahame's -The Reluctant Dragon-, and those familiar with Jef's
                              >>art know he does quite good representations of rather benevolent
                              >>
                              >>
                              >dragons
                              >
                              >
                              >>as well: parenthetical observation.
                              >>
                              >>Mike
                              >>
                              >>jef.murray wrote:
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>> Symbols for a particular culture largely _don't_ change
                              >>>meaning...Jung's life work underscored this. And regarding
                              >>>other cultures, O'Brien is basically dealing with occidental
                              >>>tradition and myth, which consistently (until the 20th century)
                              >>>depicted snakes and dragons as evil.
                              >>>
                              >>> Regarding the notion that anyone trying to make a dragon
                              >>>good is "committing a sin", I think that overstates O'Brien's
                              >>>case. He suggests that trying to change the meaning of traditional
                              >>>symbols confuses and can be hurtful, especially to children. This
                              >>>is consistent with a pre-modern mindset, which suggests that there
                              >>>_is_ such a thing as tradition versus "all things being relative".
                              >>>All O'Brien is doing is pointing out the same things that virtually
                              >>>any European would have told you prior to about 100-150 years ago.
                              >>>
                              >>> And, like Tolkien and Lewis, O'Brien would largely consider himself
                              >>>pre-modern in outlook, and quite proud of it(!).
                              >>>
                              >>> Jef
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Emerson <emerdavid@> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>>>While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                              >>>>>his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                              >>>>>O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                              >>>>>that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                              >>>>>always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                              >>>>>and committing sin.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>Well, he's got two assumptions there that are open to question.
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>One, that symbols never change meaning, and two, that dragons are
                              >>>evil. Call me a heretic if you like, but aren't there ancient
                              >>>cultures in this world who view dragons as wise and good?
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>>emerdavid
                              >>>>
                              >>>>________________________________________
                              >>>>PeoplePC Online
                              >>>>A better way to Internet
                              >>>>http://www.peoplepc.com
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                              >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Berni Phillips
                              From: Matthew Winslow ... Most likely his own books. He has several several novels out, which I ve seen in Catholic bookstores (and
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                                From: "Matthew Winslow" <bluewoad@...>
                                >
                                > For O'Brien there is some redeemable fantasy,
                                > but that list is extremely limited. I haven't read the book in a
                                > number of years, so I can't recall what he found redeemable.

                                Most likely his own books. He has several several novels out, which I've
                                seen in Catholic bookstores (and nowhere else). I read his FATHER ELIJAH:
                                AN APOCALYPSE, which was at least better than the LEFT BEHIND books.

                                Berni
                              • Diane Joy Baker
                                Actually, it s one I d like to read. ... From: Matthew Winslow To: MythSoc Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 28, 2006
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                                  Actually, it's one I'd like to read.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Matthew Winslow" <bluewoad@...>
                                  To: "MythSoc" <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:39 PM
                                  Subject: [mythsoc] Re: A Landscape with Dragons


                                  > On 27 Aug 2006 07:21:31 -0000, John wrote:
                                  > > Has Michael O'Brien's A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS: THE BATTLE FOR YOUR
                                  > > CHILD'S MIND (previously published as A LANDSCAPE WITH DRAGONS:
                                  > > CHRISTIAN AND PAGAN IMAGINATION IN CHILDREN'S LITERATURE) been
                                  > > discussed on this list before? And if so can somebody point me toward
                                  > > that discussion? Just got a copy, but don't want to bore folks if
                                  > > it's already been thoroughly hashed out before I joined the list.
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  >
                                  > I don't recall it being discussed here.
                                  >
                                  > Jonathan Michael Reiter wrote:
                                  > > > Haven't heard of it before, but from the updated title, I take it
                                  this is one of those fundamentalist "fantasy is anti-Christian" screeds??
                                  > >
                                  > > That would be about right.
                                  >
                                  > While I disagree strongly with O'Brien's conclusions, I must come to
                                  > his defense that the book was much more nuanced than that. Yes,
                                  > O'Brien is an extremely conservative Catholic, but his argument is
                                  > that certain symbols can never change in meaning, so a dragon is
                                  > always evil and that anyone who tries to make a dragon good is wrong
                                  > and committing sin. (Dragons, of course, being related to serpents,
                                  > whom the Bible depicts as symbols of evil, not to mention the evil
                                  > dragon from Revelation.) For O'Brien there is some redeemable fantasy,
                                  > but that list is extremely limited. I haven't read the book in a
                                  > number of years, so I can't recall what he found redeemable.
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Matthew Winslow
                                  > mwinslow@...
                                  > www.xreal.org
                                  >
                                  > Currently Reading: The Mayor of Casterbridge by Thomas Hardy
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
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                                  >
                                  > --
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