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Re: [mythsoc] Bede's calendar and Tolkien's

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  • Larry Swain
    Yep, from the ages of the world to the importance of March 25, all from Bede. ... -- _______________________________________________ Surf the Web in a faster,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 22, 2006
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      Yep, from the ages of the world to the importance of March 25, all from Bede.


      > Scroll down to find a calendar of ancient Anglo-Saxon months strongly
      > resembling the ones used by JRRT in his Shire Calendar. I had not realized
      > he had borrowed so much.
      >
      > http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html
      >
      >
      > Diamond Proudbrook
      >
      >
      >
      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      >


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    • Stolzi
      I knew about Yule of course, but I thought Tolkien had invented Lithe . Wrong. That was the first thing that caught my eye as I scrolled down the page. I
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 23, 2006
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        I knew about Yule of course, but I thought Tolkien had invented "Lithe". Wrong. That was the first thing that caught my eye as I scrolled down the page.

        I also recognized "Thrimidge" in its Bedean form (Thrimilchi). I now find, of course, that several webpages have discussed this whole subject.

        To Bede and every other Christian, March 25 was important as the Feast of the Annunciation.

        I am theorizing that Tolkien altered the form of Eostremonath pretty strongly ("Astron") because he wants to keep hints of Christianity - OR of ancient Anglic pagan goddesses - out of his story.


        Diamond Proudbrook

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Larry Swain
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Bede's calendar and Tolkien's



        Yep, from the ages of the world to the importance of March 25, all from Bede.

        > Scroll down to find a calendar of ancient Anglo-Saxon months strongly
        > resembling the ones used by JRRT in his Shire Calendar. I had not realized
        > he had borrowed so much.
        >
        > http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html
        >
        >
        > Diamond Proudbrook
        >
        >
        >
        > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        >

        --
        _______________________________________________
        Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
        Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

        Powered by Outblaze




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Larry Swain
        ... It was in Bede s Northumbria (until Bede came along) New Year s Day, and for most of the Middle Ages and early modern it was also the fourth day of
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 23, 2006
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          >
          >
          > I knew about Yule of course, but I thought Tolkien had invented
          > "Lithe". Wrong. That was the first thing that caught my eye as I
          > scrolled down the page.
          >
          > I also recognized "Thrimidge" in its Bedean form (Thrimilchi). I
          > now find, of course, that several webpages have discussed this
          > whole subject.
          >
          > To Bede and every other Christian, March 25 was important as the
          > Feast of the Annunciation.

          It was in Bede's Northumbria (until Bede came along) New Year's Day, and for most of the Middle Ages and early modern it was also the fourth day of creation (the creation of the sun and moon), the original 14th day of Nisan (i. e. Passover) and so also the day of Passover on which Christ day, hence the actual day of the year of the crucifixion, and hence "New Life" Day, as well as the Annunciation.

          >
          > I am theorizing that Tolkien altered the form of Eostremonath
          > pretty strongly ("Astron") because he wants to keep hints of
          > Christianity - OR of ancient Anglic pagan goddesses - out of his
          > story.

          I'd agree with that.



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        • Bonnie Callahan
          Interesting in general about Tolkien s ability to borrow creatively from obscure sources. To name a few: As a teen I bought into all of his world as
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 24, 2006
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            Interesting in general about Tolkien's ability to
            borrow creatively from obscure sources. To name a few:

            As a teen I bought into all of his world as
            "invented". Then in Freshman Anthropology, studied
            early Middle East, found "Erech". Found a ref. to Mt.
            Moriah. Pope's home; Castle Gandolfo.

            Hobbit names. My Jr. High "girls VP" was a
            "Brockhouse". There's a "Chubb Gp." financial
            org/ins, co. A huge real estate concern out here in
            West; "GRUBB- Ellis". Check out those phone books in
            England for many others!

            Senator Bilbo from the deep south many decades ago.

            Wales in 1975; Found that souvenir Welsh doll
            named "Eirwen" (Snow White, pronounced Arwen)

            My memory of having seen someone's doll in
            '50s with a blue tunic, yellow pants, & other
            characteristics that popped into my head the moment I
            read the description of Tom Bombadil.

            It felt almost psychic, to pick up these echoes of
            cross-cultural resonance in as sheltered an
            environment as the San Fernando Valley in 1966.

            Middle Earth is here & now!!!

            Bonnie

            --- Stolzi <Stolzi@...> wrote:

            > I knew about Yule of course, but I thought Tolkien
            > had invented "Lithe". Wrong. That was the first
            > thing that caught my eye as I scrolled down the
            > page.
            >
            > I also recognized "Thrimidge" in its Bedean form
            > (Thrimilchi). I now find, of course, that several
            > webpages have discussed this whole subject.
            >
            > To Bede and every other Christian, March 25 was
            > important as the Feast of the Annunciation.
            >
            > I am theorizing that Tolkien altered the form of
            > Eostremonath pretty strongly ("Astron") because he
            > wants to keep hints of Christianity - OR of ancient
            > Anglic pagan goddesses - out of his story.
            >
            >
            > Diamond Proudbrook
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Larry Swain
            > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:28 PM
            > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Bede's calendar and
            > Tolkien's
            >
            >
            >
            > Yep, from the ages of the world to the importance
            > of March 25, all from Bede.
            >
            > > Scroll down to find a calendar of ancient
            > Anglo-Saxon months strongly
            > > resembling the ones used by JRRT in his Shire
            > Calendar. I had not realized
            > > he had borrowed so much.
            > >
            > >
            >
            http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html
            > >
            > >
            > > Diamond Proudbrook
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The Mythopoeic Society website
            > http://www.mythsoc.org
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > _______________________________________________
            > Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
            > Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
            >
            > Powered by Outblaze
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
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          • ccampboyle
            (De-lurking) I had a similar experience in high school (New York, about 1977)when I discovered the Latin title of Erasmus s In Praise of Folly was Encomium
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 24, 2006
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              (De-lurking)

              I had a similar experience in high school (New York, about 1977)when I
              discovered the Latin title of Erasmus's "In Praise of Folly" was
              "Encomium Moria." I just had this flash "let folly be our cloak,"
              particularly since the Moria venture was Gandalf's idea.

              Cathy Boyle
              (re-lurking for another year or so.)

              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Bonnie Callahan <bonolatm@...> wrote:
              >
              > Interesting in general about Tolkien's ability to
              > borrow creatively from obscure sources. To name a few:
              >
              > As a teen I bought into all of his world as
              > "invented". Then in Freshman Anthropology, studied
              > early Middle East, found "Erech". Found a ref. to Mt.
              > Moriah. Pope's home; Castle Gandolfo.
              >
              > Hobbit names. My Jr. High "girls VP" was a
              > "Brockhouse". There's a "Chubb Gp." financial
              > org/ins, co. A huge real estate concern out here in
              > West; "GRUBB- Ellis". Check out those phone books in
              > England for many others!
              >
              > Senator Bilbo from the deep south many decades ago.
              >
              > Wales in 1975; Found that souvenir Welsh doll
              > named "Eirwen" (Snow White, pronounced Arwen)
              >
              > My memory of having seen someone's doll in
              > '50s with a blue tunic, yellow pants, & other
              > characteristics that popped into my head the moment I
              > read the description of Tom Bombadil.
              >
              > It felt almost psychic, to pick up these echoes of
              > cross-cultural resonance in as sheltered an
              > environment as the San Fernando Valley in 1966.
              >
              > Middle Earth is here & now!!!
              >
              > Bonnie
              >
              >
            • Walter Padgett
              I had a similar experience when I first read *The Song of Roland*. Roland s horn is named Oliphant, and of course this reminded me immediately of Tolkien s
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 24, 2006
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                I had a similar experience when I first read *The Song of Roland*. Roland's
                horn is named Oliphant, and of course this reminded me immediately of
                Tolkien's Oliphaunts, which Sam was so excited to see.


                On 7/24/06, ccampboyle <ccampboyle@...> wrote:
                >
                > (De-lurking)
                >
                > I had a similar experience in high school (New York, about 1977)when I
                > discovered the Latin title of Erasmus's "In Praise of Folly" was
                > "Encomium Moria." I just had this flash "let folly be our cloak,"
                > particularly since the Moria venture was Gandalf's idea.
                >
                > Cathy Boyle
                > (re-lurking for another year or so.)
                >
                >
                > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com <mythsoc%40yahoogroups.com>, Bonnie
                > Callahan <bonolatm@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Interesting in general about Tolkien's ability to
                > > borrow creatively from obscure sources. To name a few:
                > >
                > > As a teen I bought into all of his world as
                > > "invented". Then in Freshman Anthropology, studied
                > > early Middle East, found "Erech". Found a ref. to Mt.
                > > Moriah. Pope's home; Castle Gandolfo.
                > >
                > > Hobbit names. My Jr. High "girls VP" was a
                > > "Brockhouse". There's a "Chubb Gp." financial
                > > org/ins, co. A huge real estate concern out here in
                > > West; "GRUBB- Ellis". Check out those phone books in
                > > England for many others!
                > >
                > > Senator Bilbo from the deep south many decades ago.
                > >
                > > Wales in 1975; Found that souvenir Welsh doll
                > > named "Eirwen" (Snow White, pronounced Arwen)
                > >
                > > My memory of having seen someone's doll in
                > > '50s with a blue tunic, yellow pants, & other
                > > characteristics that popped into my head the moment I
                > > read the description of Tom Bombadil.
                > >
                > > It felt almost psychic, to pick up these echoes of
                > > cross-cultural resonance in as sheltered an
                > > environment as the San Fernando Valley in 1966.
                > >
                > > Middle Earth is here & now!!!
                > >
                > > Bonnie
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >


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