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Second Edition =The Silmarillion=

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  • Walter Padgett
    Can anyone help me locate a textual analysis of the Second Edition of =The Silmarillion=? I ve been studying Hammond s Descriptive Bibliography, and it
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 18, 2006
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      Can anyone help me locate a textual analysis of the Second Edition of
      =The Silmarillion=? I've been studying Hammond's Descriptive
      Bibliography, and it doesn't cover the two editions illustrated by Ted
      Nasmith. But the most recent of those is a "Second Edition" and I want
      to know what are the differences between this and the earlier
      editions. Is it just different illustrations, or was the text reset?
      Did new errors creep in, or were the old ones repeated?

      I'm assuming that a critical textual analysis of this work has been
      produced, and that it has been published somewhere. But where? Is
      there addenda to Hammond's Descriptive Bibliography that covers the
      editions illustrated by Nasmith?

      Walter.
    • John D Rateliff
      I don t know of any analysis comparing the two editions, but yes the text was reset--for example, compare the first two pages of any chapter in the first and
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 19, 2006
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        I don't know of any analysis comparing the two editions, but yes the
        text was reset--for example, compare the first two pages of any
        chapter in the first and second editions. See also Christopher's
        statement in the "Preface to the Second Edition" on pages xiii-xiv:
        "I have removed a number of errors in the text and index which until
        now have escaped correction in the hardback printings (only) of The
        Silmarillion. Chief among these are those that concern the numbering
        in sequence of certain of the rulers of Numenor (for these errors and
        an explanation of how they arose see Unfinished Tales (1980) p.226,
        note 11, and The Peoples of Middle-earth (1996) p.154, [section]31."
        It would be nice to think no new typos crept in during the process; I
        have not spotted any, but I haven't read straight through the new
        text nor collated it with the earlier.
        Wayne's book predates the second edition Silm. by the better part
        of a decade, so of course the latter could not be covered in the
        former; that will have to wait for the eventual new edition of
        Wayne's book. Christina's Tolkien Collector included such addenda,
        but it's been quite a while since the last issue I received (#26,
        Dec. '02), since they have been v. busy w. other projects. The second
        edition Silm. is described in issues #22 (page 7) [hc] and #24 (pages
        9-10) [tp] but the changes not detailed. Perhaps you shd undertake
        such a textual analysis and comparison yrself.
        --JDR



        On Jun 18, 2006, at 1:02 AM, Walter Padgett wrote:
        > Can anyone help me locate a textual analysis of the Second Edition of
        > =The Silmarillion=? I've been studying Hammond's Descriptive
        > Bibliography, and it doesn't cover the two editions illustrated by Ted
        > Nasmith. But the most recent of those is a "Second Edition" and I
        > want
        > to know what are the differences between this and the earlier
        > editions. Is it just different illustrations, or was the text reset?
        > Did new errors creep in, or were the old ones repeated?
        >
        > I'm assuming that a critical textual analysis of this work has been
        > produced, and that it has been published somewhere. But where? Is
        > there addenda to Hammond's Descriptive Bibliography that covers the
        > editions illustrated by Nasmith?


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Walter Padgett
        Thanks for replying to my question, which I should like to cite in my report. It is sufficient to have checked the status of textual criticism on this work.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 19, 2006
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          Thanks for replying to my question, which I should like to cite in my
          report. It is sufficient to have checked the status of textual criticism on
          this work. I really had assumed that something along these lines has
          already been produced. I would relish the accomplishment, myself. But
          alas, as Chaucer said, "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne"
          (*Parlement
          of Foules*) [from Köberl's site: http://www.uni-klu.ac.at/~jkoeberl/%5d.

          Walter.



          On 6/19/06, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@...> wrote:
          >
          > I don't know of any analysis comparing the two editions, but yes the
          > text was reset--for example, compare the first two pages of any
          > chapter in the first and second editions. See also Christopher's
          > statement in the "Preface to the Second Edition" on pages xiii-xiv:
          > "I have removed a number of errors in the text and index which until
          > now have escaped correction in the hardback printings (only) of The
          > Silmarillion. Chief among these are those that concern the numbering
          > in sequence of certain of the rulers of Numenor (for these errors and
          > an explanation of how they arose see Unfinished Tales (1980) p.226,
          > note 11, and The Peoples of Middle-earth (1996) p.154, [section]31."
          > It would be nice to think no new typos crept in during the process; I
          > have not spotted any, but I haven't read straight through the new
          > text nor collated it with the earlier.
          > Wayne's book predates the second edition Silm. by the better part
          > of a decade, so of course the latter could not be covered in the
          > former; that will have to wait for the eventual new edition of
          > Wayne's book. Christina's Tolkien Collector included such addenda,
          > but it's been quite a while since the last issue I received (#26,
          > Dec. '02), since they have been v. busy w. other projects. The second
          > edition Silm. is described in issues #22 (page 7) [hc] and #24 (pages
          > 9-10) [tp] but the changes not detailed. Perhaps you shd undertake
          > such a textual analysis and comparison yrself.
          > --JDR
          >
          > On Jun 18, 2006, at 1:02 AM, Walter Padgett wrote:
          > > Can anyone help me locate a textual analysis of the Second Edition of
          > > =The Silmarillion=? I've been studying Hammond's Descriptive
          > > Bibliography, and it doesn't cover the two editions illustrated by Ted
          > > Nasmith. But the most recent of those is a "Second Edition" and I
          > > want
          > > to know what are the differences between this and the earlier
          > > editions. Is it just different illustrations, or was the text reset?
          > > Did new errors creep in, or were the old ones repeated?
          > >
          > > I'm assuming that a critical textual analysis of this work has been
          > > produced, and that it has been published somewhere. But where? Is
          > > there addenda to Hammond's Descriptive Bibliography that covers the
          > > editions illustrated by Nasmith?
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John D Rateliff
          Reading through some back issues of THE FORTEAN TIMES which a friend gave me, and found a reference to CSL. Since I don t expect many folks here would
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 26, 2006
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            Reading through some back issues of THE FORTEAN TIMES which a friend
            gave me, and found a reference to CSL. Since I don't expect many
            folks here would otherwise see it, I reprint the penultimate
            paragraph from their profile of Wells:

            "Indeed the long, harsh anti-utopia of World War II depressed Wells.
            He was in London during the Blitz, and his last few years were
            clouded by illness, but he kept writing to the end. The actual coming
            of nuclear weapons, many of whose horrors he had imagined in The
            World Set Free, added to the gloom. So perhaps did CS Lewis's occult
            fantasy novel The Hideous Strength (1945), briefly but viciously
            caricaturing Wells as "Jules", a pompous Cockney author with out-of-
            date scientific training and no comprehension of the technological
            evils which he foolishly promotes."

            --Fortean Times #199, Sept 2005, page 41, from "The history of Mr
            Wells" by David Langford.


            To be fair, I don't think Lewis knew Wells was dying at the time
            his little bit of character assassination was published, though he
            must have known he was old (nearly 80) and in ill health. Still, it's
            interesting to glimpse CSL from time to time as he appears in other
            contexts and from other points of view.

            --JDR



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            This article in _The Fortean Times_ by David Langford can be found online at _http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/199_hgwells1.shtml_
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 26, 2006
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              This article in _The Fortean Times_ by David Langford can be found online at
              _http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/199_hgwells1.shtml_
              (http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/199_hgwells1.shtml) (since the magazine keeps some of its
              articles in a freely available online archive).

              I'm about to E-mail Dave Langford and ask him if he actually knows that
              Wells even read _That Hideous Strength_. I'm not aware that anyone has
              previously established if that's true. It doesn't actually sound very likely to me.

              Wendell Wagner


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              ... Wells was ... Has it even been ... very likely to ... experience, ... some Lewis reader ... Wendell Wagner [Non-text portions of this message have been
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 27, 2006
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                I asked the following question (by E-mail) of Dave Langford:

                > In your article in _The Fortean Times_, issue 199, you wonder if H. G.
                Wells was
                > depressed by being satirized in _That Hideous Strength_ by C. S. Lewis.
                Has it even been
                > established that Wells read _That Hideous Strength_? That doesn't sound
                very likely to
                > me, but perhaps you know of some evidence otherwise.

                He replied with the following:

                > I took some care to qualify that speculation with "perhaps". From my own
                experience,
                > irrespective of whether Wells read the book, I think it plausible that
                some Lewis reader
                > would have pointed out that passage to him.

                Wendell Wagner


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mike Foster
                In other words, no conclusive sighting of the Ivory-billed Jules. Mike ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 27, 2006
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                  In other words, no conclusive sighting of the Ivory-billed Jules.

                  Mike

                  WendellWag@... wrote:

                  >I asked the following question (by E-mail) of Dave Langford:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>In your article in _The Fortean Times_, issue 199, you wonder if H. G.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >Wells was
                  >
                  >
                  >>depressed by being satirized in _That Hideous Strength_ by C. S. Lewis.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >Has it even been
                  >
                  >
                  >>established that Wells read _That Hideous Strength_? That doesn't sound
                  >>
                  >>
                  >very likely to
                  >
                  >
                  >>me, but perhaps you know of some evidence otherwise.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >He replied with the following:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>I took some care to qualify that speculation with "perhaps". From my own
                  >>
                  >>
                  >experience,
                  >
                  >
                  >>irrespective of whether Wells read the book, I think it plausible that
                  >>
                  >>
                  >some Lewis reader
                  >
                  >
                  >>would have pointed out that passage to him.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >Wendell Wagner
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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