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Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien and Tristan

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  • Pedro de los Angeles
    Me queda una duda: ¿vio la presentación de mi paper en Birmingham? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 7, 2006
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      Me queda una duda: ¿vio la presentación de mi paper en Birmingham?


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fernando C.S.
      In Birmingham, Sunday afternoon there was a paper by Pedro titled The Catholic Adaptation of Myths lectured by Denis Bridoux (in former s absence). Final
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 10, 2006
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        In Birmingham, Sunday afternoon there was a paper by Pedro
        titled "The Catholic Adaptation of Myths" lectured by Denis Bridoux
        (in former's absence). Final title was slightly different alluding
        to a technique 'contrafactura' in stead to a simple 'adaptation'.

        The first half discussed the Catholic influence in Tolkien's work,
        and contrafactura technique (showing how it was used before over
        pagan myths by Christendom). Then, in the second half, it was
        followed by a comparison of Tristram and Iseult and Aragorn and
        Arwen's stories. The former myth was called a story of an
        unfortunate, reciprocal love, and the latter of blessed, reciprocal
        love; the latter a turnaround of the former describing the elements
        required for this through their story (supported in commentaries
        drawn from The Letters, especially the one about matrimony). In
        some way opposing Denis de Rougemont's idea (Amor y occidente, Love
        and occident?) about love-passion that I heard from Pedro before.

        By this comparison, as example, supported on other premises is shown
        the proposal that Tolkien used 'contrafactura' (embedded with
        Catholic values) as a technique of creation and opinion... or at
        least that is what I understood. The last part was about the
        validity of myth to communicate the truth, and the validity to change
        myth with catholic elements (but this all fall out of my range).

        I hope this helps.


        ssmmbfcs
      • Vincent Ferré
        Thank you very much, Fernando, for this abstract. But it is surprising to see that Pedro chose Aragorn & Arwen to compare them to Tristran and Iseut ; Turin s
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 11, 2006
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          Thank you very much, Fernando, for this abstract. But it is surprising to see that Pedro chose Aragorn & Arwen to compare them to Tristran and Iseut ; Turin's story (Finduilas, Nienor) and above all Beren & Luthien are much more interesting.
          Because "contrafactum" implies "source", and you cannot say that Tristran and Iseut's story is a source for Aragorn-Luthien ; their story is closer to Erec-Enide's, Cliges' or Yvain's stories (I wrote a dissertation about the latter) ; and the religious values are already very strong in Iseut's story. I think that Aragorn's story is to be mentioned, but as a perspective, not a direct reference.
          Anyway, I'll finish my paper in the coming week, and send an abstract to you.

          best wishes
          Vincent


          In Birmingham, Sunday afternoon there was a paper by Pedro
          titled "The Catholic Adaptation of Myths" lectured by Denis Bridoux
          (in former's absence). Final title was slightly different alluding
          to a technique 'contrafactura' in stead to a simple 'adaptation'.

          The first half discussed the Catholic influence in Tolkien's work,
          and contrafactura technique (showing how it was used before over
          pagan myths by Christendom). Then, in the second half, it was
          followed by a comparison of Tristram and Iseult and Aragorn and
          Arwen's stories. The former myth was called a story of an
          unfortunate, reciprocal love, and the latter of blessed, reciprocal
          love; the latter a turnaround of the former describing the elements
          required for this through their story (supported in commentaries
          drawn from The Letters, especially the one about matrimony). In
          some way opposing Denis de Rougemont's idea (Amor y occidente, Love
          and occident?) about love-passion that I heard from Pedro before.

          By this comparison, as example, supported on other premises is shown
          the proposal that Tolkien used 'contrafactura' (embedded with
          Catholic values) as a technique of creation and opinion... or at
          least that is what I understood. The last part was about the
          validity of myth to communicate the truth, and the validity to change
          myth with catholic elements (but this all fall out of my range).

          I hope this helps.


          ssmmbfcs


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