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Re: [mythsoc]: "Beauty of the female"(What if you're not BEAUTIFUL???)

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  • Mike Foster
    Stretching, indeed, especially if prof. identified Janis Joplin as the writer. Like saying the Wife of Bath s tale was written by Mrs. Chaucer. Mike ...
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 4, 2006
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      Stretching, indeed, especially if prof. identified Janis Joplin as the
      writer. Like saying the Wife of Bath's tale was written by Mrs. Chaucer.

      Mike

      Lezlie wrote:

      >I've been "hanging around" younger women, their issues and experiences
      >are very different from mine, and thank the Gods that is the case!
      >
      >IMHO (at the risk of causing a riot): the critiques of feminism I have
      >seen here recently are stuck in 1968 and should be *retired*.
      >
      >There is too much real work to be done in the world on behalf of women
      >and children to be bothered by "feminine" vs. "feminist" rhetoric that
      >is at least 40 years old ... just my 2 cents, mind. What Lewis said
      >about the politics of his day were vaild (maybe) in his day, but are
      >-- well -- quaint is the word that comes to mind in 2006.
      >
      >A side: I never considered "Me & Bobby McGee" to be especially
      >feminist, I think the Prof. in question was s-t-r-e-c-h-i-n-g,
      >personally. Haight/Ashbury ethos, maybe, but feminist...?
      >Oh...brother... about as relevant as the endless question of Arwen had
      >any girl-Elf children to play with... Lezlie
      >
      >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >>Ruth Pitter was such a one.
      >>
      >>'Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad school
      >>class at a nearby university that shall go un[Bradley]named.
      >>
      >>Prof. played Janis Joplin version of "Me & Bobby McGee" and began
      >>
      >>
      >hyping
      >
      >
      >>Joplin's feminist views in her lyric. Uh, our friend reported, the
      >>
      >>
      >song
      >
      >
      >>was written by Kris Kristofferson. The prof. disputed this and it
      >>didn't help Jim's grade.
      >>
      >>Foster
      >>
      >>Bonnie Callahan wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>>I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my
      >>>
      >>>
      >friends & I,
      >
      >
      >>>who strive to surpass "Mere
      >>>Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I
      >>>
      >>>
      >think I'll
      >
      >
      >>>write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck
      >>>
      >>>
      >inside of next
      >
      >
      >>>is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better
      >>>
      >>>
      >get busy!
      >
      >
      >>>Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in
      >>>
      >>>
      >Mythic
      >
      >
      >>>Circle!)
      >>>
      >>>Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.
      >>>
      >>>I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males
      >>>
      >>>
      >playing roles
      >
      >
      >>>of questers, heroes, rescuers,
      >>>adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem
      >>>
      >>>
      >to occur to
      >
      >
      >>>me that "Oh I can't rescue
      >>>Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later
      >>>
      >>>
      >that I was
      >
      >
      >>>exposed to the feminist crit. of
      >>>literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a
      >>>
      >>>
      >HUMAN BEING
      >
      >
      >>>first"! I guess that kept me
      >>>a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>Bonnie
      >>>
      >>>Stolzi wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >the CSL
      >
      >
      >>>>list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
      >>>>>to Barfield. It
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>Coventry
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>Barfield: "What
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>expects to find
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>desire to be admired
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>and making it his chief point--the lover as
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>primarily the mechanism
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>("The idea of female
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>men.") He then
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>novel,"
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>to Barfield's
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>novel, English People.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >archive
      >
      >
      >>>>somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >Lewis
      >
      >
      >>>>letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire"
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >crossed
      >
      >
      >>>>CSL's mind.
      >>>>
      >>>>Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >quote there.
      >
      >
      >>>>I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >in any
      >
      >
      >>>>case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
      >>>>
      >>>>Diamond Proudbrook
      >>>>
      >>>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lezlie
      Indeed! And, in academics, correct references are everything! Lezlie ... Chaucer. ... school
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 8, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Indeed! And, in academics, correct references are everything! Lezlie

        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
        >
        > Stretching, indeed, especially if prof. identified Janis Joplin as the
        > writer. Like saying the Wife of Bath's tale was written by Mrs.
        Chaucer.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        > Lezlie wrote:
        >
        > >I've been "hanging around" younger women, their issues and experiences
        > >are very different from mine, and thank the Gods that is the case!
        > >
        > >IMHO (at the risk of causing a riot): the critiques of feminism I have
        > >seen here recently are stuck in 1968 and should be *retired*.
        > >
        > >There is too much real work to be done in the world on behalf of women
        > >and children to be bothered by "feminine" vs. "feminist" rhetoric that
        > >is at least 40 years old ... just my 2 cents, mind. What Lewis said
        > >about the politics of his day were vaild (maybe) in his day, but are
        > >-- well -- quaint is the word that comes to mind in 2006.
        > >
        > >A side: I never considered "Me & Bobby McGee" to be especially
        > >feminist, I think the Prof. in question was s-t-r-e-c-h-i-n-g,
        > >personally. Haight/Ashbury ethos, maybe, but feminist...?
        > >Oh...brother... about as relevant as the endless question of Arwen had
        > >any girl-Elf children to play with... Lezlie
        > >
        > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >>Ruth Pitter was such a one.
        > >>
        > >>'Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad
        school
        > >>class at a nearby university that shall go un[Bradley]named.
        > >>
        > >>Prof. played Janis Joplin version of "Me & Bobby McGee" and began
        > >>
        > >>
        > >hyping
        > >
        > >
        > >>Joplin's feminist views in her lyric. Uh, our friend reported, the
        > >>
        > >>
        > >song
        > >
        > >
        > >>was written by Kris Kristofferson. The prof. disputed this and it
        > >>didn't help Jim's grade.
        > >>
        > >>Foster
        > >>
        > >>Bonnie Callahan wrote:
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>>I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >friends & I,
        > >
        > >
        > >>>who strive to surpass "Mere
        > >>>Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >think I'll
        > >
        > >
        > >>>write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >inside of next
        > >
        > >
        > >>>is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >get busy!
        > >
        > >
        > >>>Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >Mythic
        > >
        > >
        > >>>Circle!)
        > >>>
        > >>>Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.
        > >>>
        > >>>I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >playing roles
        > >
        > >
        > >>>of questers, heroes, rescuers,
        > >>>adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >to occur to
        > >
        > >
        > >>>me that "Oh I can't rescue
        > >>>Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >that I was
        > >
        > >
        > >>>exposed to the feminist crit. of
        > >>>literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >HUMAN BEING
        > >
        > >
        > >>>first"! I guess that kept me
        > >>>a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>Bonnie
        > >>>
        > >>>Stolzi wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>>I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >the CSL
        > >
        > >
        > >>>>list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>>A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
        > >>>>>to Barfield. It
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>Coventry
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>Barfield: "What
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>expects to find
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>desire to be admired
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>and making it his chief point--the lover as
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>primarily the mechanism
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>("The idea of female
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>men.") He then
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>novel,"
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>to Barfield's
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>novel, English People.
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >archive
        > >
        > >
        > >>>>somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >Lewis
        > >
        > >
        > >>>>letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire"
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >crossed
        > >
        > >
        > >>>>CSL's mind.
        > >>>>
        > >>>>Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >quote there.
        > >
        > >
        > >>>>I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >in any
        > >
        > >
        > >>>>case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
        > >>>>
        > >>>>Diamond Proudbrook
        > >>>>
        > >>>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>
        > >>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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