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Re: [mythsoc]: "Beauty of the female"(What if you're not BEAUTIFUL???)

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  • Bonnie Callahan
    I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my friends & I, who strive to surpass Mere Femininity . Can t be BOTHERED. WE re SO irritated by
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 31, 2006
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      I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my friends & I,
      who strive to surpass "Mere
      Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I think I'll
      write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck inside of next
      is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better get busy!
      Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in Mythic
      Circle!)

      Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.

      I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males playing roles
      of questers, heroes, rescuers,
      adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem to occur to
      me that "Oh I can't rescue
      Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later that I was
      exposed to the feminist crit. of
      literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a HUMAN BEING
      first"! I guess that kept me
      a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!


      Bonnie

      Stolzi wrote:

      > I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to the CSL
      > list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
      >
      > > A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
      > > to Barfield. It
      > >> was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
      > > Coventry
      > >> Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
      > > Barfield: "What
      > >> particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
      > > expects to find
      > >> mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
      > > desire to be admired
      > >> and making it his chief point--the lover as
      > > primarily the mechanism
      > >> by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
      > >>
      > >> 'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
      > > ("The idea of female
      > >> beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
      > > men.") He then
      > >> says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
      > > novel,"
      > >> referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
      > > to Barfield's
      > >> novel, English People.
      >
      > ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an archive
      > somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a Lewis
      > letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire" crossed
      > CSL's mind.
      >
      > Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the quote there.
      > I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche in any
      > case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
      >
      > Diamond Proudbrook
      >
      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Mike Foster
      Ruth Pitter was such a one. Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad school class at a nearby university that shall go
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Ruth Pitter was such a one.

        'Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad school
        class at a nearby university that shall go un[Bradley]named.

        Prof. played Janis Joplin version of "Me & Bobby McGee" and began hyping
        Joplin's feminist views in her lyric. Uh, our friend reported, the song
        was written by Kris Kristofferson. The prof. disputed this and it
        didn't help Jim's grade.

        Foster

        Bonnie Callahan wrote:

        >I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my friends & I,
        >who strive to surpass "Mere
        >Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I think I'll
        >write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck inside of next
        >is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better get busy!
        >Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in Mythic
        >Circle!)
        >
        >Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.
        >
        >I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males playing roles
        >of questers, heroes, rescuers,
        >adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem to occur to
        >me that "Oh I can't rescue
        >Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later that I was
        >exposed to the feminist crit. of
        >literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a HUMAN BEING
        >first"! I guess that kept me
        >a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!
        >
        >
        >Bonnie
        >
        >Stolzi wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to the CSL
        >>list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>>A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
        >>>to Barfield. It
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>Coventry
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>Barfield: "What
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>expects to find
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>desire to be admired
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>and making it his chief point--the lover as
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>primarily the mechanism
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
        >>>>
        >>>>'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>("The idea of female
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>men.") He then
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>novel,"
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>to Barfield's
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>novel, English People.
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an archive
        >>somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a Lewis
        >>letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire" crossed
        >>CSL's mind.
        >>
        >>Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the quote there.
        >>I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche in any
        >>case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
        >>
        >>Diamond Proudbrook
        >>
        >>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lezlie
        I ve been hanging around younger women, their issues and experiences are very different from mine, and thank the Gods that is the case! IMHO (at the risk of
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          I've been "hanging around" younger women, their issues and experiences
          are very different from mine, and thank the Gods that is the case!

          IMHO (at the risk of causing a riot): the critiques of feminism I have
          seen here recently are stuck in 1968 and should be *retired*.

          There is too much real work to be done in the world on behalf of women
          and children to be bothered by "feminine" vs. "feminist" rhetoric that
          is at least 40 years old ... just my 2 cents, mind. What Lewis said
          about the politics of his day were vaild (maybe) in his day, but are
          -- well -- quaint is the word that comes to mind in 2006.

          A side: I never considered "Me & Bobby McGee" to be especially
          feminist, I think the Prof. in question was s-t-r-e-c-h-i-n-g,
          personally. Haight/Ashbury ethos, maybe, but feminist...?
          Oh...brother... about as relevant as the endless question of Arwen had
          any girl-Elf children to play with... Lezlie

          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ruth Pitter was such a one.
          >
          > 'Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad school
          > class at a nearby university that shall go un[Bradley]named.
          >
          > Prof. played Janis Joplin version of "Me & Bobby McGee" and began
          hyping
          > Joplin's feminist views in her lyric. Uh, our friend reported, the
          song
          > was written by Kris Kristofferson. The prof. disputed this and it
          > didn't help Jim's grade.
          >
          > Foster
          >
          > Bonnie Callahan wrote:
          >
          > >I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my
          friends & I,
          > >who strive to surpass "Mere
          > >Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I
          think I'll
          > >write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck
          inside of next
          > >is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better
          get busy!
          > >Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in
          Mythic
          > >Circle!)
          > >
          > >Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.
          > >
          > >I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males
          playing roles
          > >of questers, heroes, rescuers,
          > >adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem
          to occur to
          > >me that "Oh I can't rescue
          > >Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later
          that I was
          > >exposed to the feminist crit. of
          > >literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a
          HUMAN BEING
          > >first"! I guess that kept me
          > >a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!
          > >
          > >
          > >Bonnie
          > >
          > >Stolzi wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >>I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to
          the CSL
          > >>list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>>A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
          > >>>to Barfield. It
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>Coventry
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>Barfield: "What
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>expects to find
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>desire to be admired
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>and making it his chief point--the lover as
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>primarily the mechanism
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
          > >>>>
          > >>>>'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>("The idea of female
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>men.") He then
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>novel,"
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>to Barfield's
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>novel, English People.
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an
          archive
          > >>somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a
          Lewis
          > >>letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire"
          crossed
          > >>CSL's mind.
          > >>
          > >>Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the
          quote there.
          > >>I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche
          in any
          > >>case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
          > >>
          > >>Diamond Proudbrook
          > >>
          > >>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Mike Foster
          Stretching, indeed, especially if prof. identified Janis Joplin as the writer. Like saying the Wife of Bath s tale was written by Mrs. Chaucer. Mike ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Stretching, indeed, especially if prof. identified Janis Joplin as the
            writer. Like saying the Wife of Bath's tale was written by Mrs. Chaucer.

            Mike

            Lezlie wrote:

            >I've been "hanging around" younger women, their issues and experiences
            >are very different from mine, and thank the Gods that is the case!
            >
            >IMHO (at the risk of causing a riot): the critiques of feminism I have
            >seen here recently are stuck in 1968 and should be *retired*.
            >
            >There is too much real work to be done in the world on behalf of women
            >and children to be bothered by "feminine" vs. "feminist" rhetoric that
            >is at least 40 years old ... just my 2 cents, mind. What Lewis said
            >about the politics of his day were vaild (maybe) in his day, but are
            >-- well -- quaint is the word that comes to mind in 2006.
            >
            >A side: I never considered "Me & Bobby McGee" to be especially
            >feminist, I think the Prof. in question was s-t-r-e-c-h-i-n-g,
            >personally. Haight/Ashbury ethos, maybe, but feminist...?
            >Oh...brother... about as relevant as the endless question of Arwen had
            >any girl-Elf children to play with... Lezlie
            >
            >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>Ruth Pitter was such a one.
            >>
            >>'Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad school
            >>class at a nearby university that shall go un[Bradley]named.
            >>
            >>Prof. played Janis Joplin version of "Me & Bobby McGee" and began
            >>
            >>
            >hyping
            >
            >
            >>Joplin's feminist views in her lyric. Uh, our friend reported, the
            >>
            >>
            >song
            >
            >
            >>was written by Kris Kristofferson. The prof. disputed this and it
            >>didn't help Jim's grade.
            >>
            >>Foster
            >>
            >>Bonnie Callahan wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my
            >>>
            >>>
            >friends & I,
            >
            >
            >>>who strive to surpass "Mere
            >>>Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I
            >>>
            >>>
            >think I'll
            >
            >
            >>>write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck
            >>>
            >>>
            >inside of next
            >
            >
            >>>is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better
            >>>
            >>>
            >get busy!
            >
            >
            >>>Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in
            >>>
            >>>
            >Mythic
            >
            >
            >>>Circle!)
            >>>
            >>>Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.
            >>>
            >>>I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males
            >>>
            >>>
            >playing roles
            >
            >
            >>>of questers, heroes, rescuers,
            >>>adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem
            >>>
            >>>
            >to occur to
            >
            >
            >>>me that "Oh I can't rescue
            >>>Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later
            >>>
            >>>
            >that I was
            >
            >
            >>>exposed to the feminist crit. of
            >>>literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a
            >>>
            >>>
            >HUMAN BEING
            >
            >
            >>>first"! I guess that kept me
            >>>a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>Bonnie
            >>>
            >>>Stolzi wrote:
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>>I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >the CSL
            >
            >
            >>>>list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>>A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
            >>>>>to Barfield. It
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>Coventry
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>Barfield: "What
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>expects to find
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>desire to be admired
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>and making it his chief point--the lover as
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>primarily the mechanism
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>("The idea of female
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>men.") He then
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>novel,"
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>to Barfield's
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>novel, English People.
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >archive
            >
            >
            >>>>somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >Lewis
            >
            >
            >>>>letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire"
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >crossed
            >
            >
            >>>>CSL's mind.
            >>>>
            >>>>Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >quote there.
            >
            >
            >>>>I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >in any
            >
            >
            >>>>case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
            >>>>
            >>>>Diamond Proudbrook
            >>>>
            >>>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>
            >>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lezlie
            Indeed! And, in academics, correct references are everything! Lezlie ... Chaucer. ... school
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 8, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Indeed! And, in academics, correct references are everything! Lezlie

              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@...> wrote:
              >
              > Stretching, indeed, especially if prof. identified Janis Joplin as the
              > writer. Like saying the Wife of Bath's tale was written by Mrs.
              Chaucer.
              >
              > Mike
              >
              > Lezlie wrote:
              >
              > >I've been "hanging around" younger women, their issues and experiences
              > >are very different from mine, and thank the Gods that is the case!
              > >
              > >IMHO (at the risk of causing a riot): the critiques of feminism I have
              > >seen here recently are stuck in 1968 and should be *retired*.
              > >
              > >There is too much real work to be done in the world on behalf of women
              > >and children to be bothered by "feminine" vs. "feminist" rhetoric that
              > >is at least 40 years old ... just my 2 cents, mind. What Lewis said
              > >about the politics of his day were vaild (maybe) in his day, but are
              > >-- well -- quaint is the word that comes to mind in 2006.
              > >
              > >A side: I never considered "Me & Bobby McGee" to be especially
              > >feminist, I think the Prof. in question was s-t-r-e-c-h-i-n-g,
              > >personally. Haight/Ashbury ethos, maybe, but feminist...?
              > >Oh...brother... about as relevant as the endless question of Arwen had
              > >any girl-Elf children to play with... Lezlie
              > >
              > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >>Ruth Pitter was such a one.
              > >>
              > >>'Ware, though. A member of Far Westfarthing smial was in a grad
              school
              > >>class at a nearby university that shall go un[Bradley]named.
              > >>
              > >>Prof. played Janis Joplin version of "Me & Bobby McGee" and began
              > >>
              > >>
              > >hyping
              > >
              > >
              > >>Joplin's feminist views in her lyric. Uh, our friend reported, the
              > >>
              > >>
              > >song
              > >
              > >
              > >>was written by Kris Kristofferson. The prof. disputed this and it
              > >>didn't help Jim's grade.
              > >>
              > >>Foster
              > >>
              > >>Bonnie Callahan wrote:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>>I wish CSL & like-minded believers had known more women like my
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >friends & I,
              > >
              > >
              > >>>who strive to surpass "Mere
              > >>>Femininity". Can't be BOTHERED. WE're SO irritated by "Womans**t. I
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >think I'll
              > >
              > >
              > >>>write a parody of "ShoddyLands" where the person he gets stuck
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >inside of next
              > >
              > >
              > >>>is a jock. (OOPS, now someone else is gonna do it first, I'd better
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >get busy!
              > >
              > >
              > >>>Hey, let's have a writing competition & publish all the results in
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >Mythic
              > >
              > >
              > >>>Circle!)
              > >>>
              > >>>Gender ID can become a spiritual poison.
              > >>>
              > >>>I never felt a lot of antipathy towards the predominance of males
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >playing roles
              > >
              > >
              > >>>of questers, heroes, rescuers,
              > >>>adventurers because I identified w. them as PEOPLE. It didn't seem
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >to occur to
              > >
              > >
              > >>>me that "Oh I can't rescue
              > >>>Frodo or carry the Ring bcs. I'm a GIRL." It was some yrs. later
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >that I was
              > >
              > >
              > >>>exposed to the feminist crit. of
              > >>>literature. And I still insisted "Enter the role of the Hero as a
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >HUMAN BEING
              > >
              > >
              > >>>first"! I guess that kept me
              > >>>a little saner than I might otherwise have felt!
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>Bonnie
              > >>>
              > >>>Stolzi wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>>I recently tried to get some help on the quote by cross-posting to
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >the CSL
              > >
              > >
              > >>>>list, SpareOom. One of their members wrote
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>>A wonderful clue! I've found the letter
              > >>>>>to Barfield. It
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>was written June 19, 1930. In it, Lewis mentions
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>Coventry
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>Patmore's "Angel in the House," and writes this to
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>Barfield: "What
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>particularly impressed me was his taking--what one
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>expects to find
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>mentioned only in anti-feminists--the lilithian
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>desire to be admired
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>and making it his chief point--the lover as
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>primarily the mechanism
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>by wh. [sic] the woman's beauty apprehends itself."
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>'Lewis expands on the idea in the next paragraph
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>("The idea of female
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>beauty is the erotic stimulus for women as well as
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>men.") He then
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>says: "You are very good on this, in Margaret in the
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>novel,"
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>referring, as Hooper helpfully says in a footnote,
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>to Barfield's
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>novel, English People.
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>ENGLISH PEOPLE, I have learned, was never published and is in an
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >archive
              > >
              > >
              > >>>>somewhere, I think at the Wade Collection. But this citation of a
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >Lewis
              > >
              > >
              > >>>>letter may be the first time the idea of the "lilithian desire"
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >crossed
              > >
              > >
              > >>>>CSL's mind.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>Other readers checked the Patmore original and did not find the
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >quote there.
              > >
              > >
              > >>>>I incline more and more to think that Lewis (a master of pastiche
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >in any
              > >
              > >
              > >>>>case) composed the quote which Jane reads, himself.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>Diamond Proudbrook
              > >>>>
              > >>>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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