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Re: "good" characters in fiction

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  • Lezlie
    I don t think he does-- no -- in fact he doesn t. Not in the books or the films. He attempts to follow his father s orders and send any intruders to Minas
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 24, 2006
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      I don't think he does-- no -- in fact he doesn't. Not in the books or
      the films. He attempts to follow his father's orders and send any
      intruders to Minas Tirith (which is explained in the film and in the
      book)-- then, after Sam blurts out about the Ring, he spends some time
      thinking, and finally, disobeys orders and sends the pair onward --
      with a heavy heart, believing their cause to be lost. It isn't instant
      in either thing, the book or the film -- it makes the following
      battles & the confrontation with Denethor even more interesting, IMHO.

      Later, Faramir tries to hold the river and and succumbs to the Black
      Breath. His healing, heart and body, walking with Eowyn in the House
      of Healing, make for interesting depth the last chapters of book 3. In
      the DVD version of the film, this part (much missed in the theatrical
      version)has been (somewhat) returned, but lacks the "troubadour"
      quality of the original (modern filmmakers just *do not get* this idea).

      Boromir was deeply tempted -- and conflicted- and he acted badly -- he
      also regretted his action, defended the Hobbits and lost his life. He
      gained redemption and saw the evil nature of the Ring in his last
      actions -- very much echoing some of the themes in his earlier tales
      in the "Silmarillion" (I'm thinking especially of Turin...), IMHO. I
      never interpreted Boromir's actions as being motivated by a desire "to
      curry favor" with Denethor, but actions born of absolute loyalty by a
      man "of action" who believed in what we would label a "military
      solution" today. I tend to think Tolkien was showing why that was the
      wrong answer-- and another effect of the Ring's ability to corrupt
      "good hearted men".

      I thought the film brought that out-- it's in the books, but half the
      people who've read it that I've talked to -- well -- it went right
      past them. The two brothers are alike, and different in their basic
      natures -- both their father's sons in interesting ways. the fact that
      they are brothers is also very interesting -- insights into Tolkien's
      themes and ideas abound in this little triangular relationship of
      Denethor, Faramir & Boromir-- about kinship, kingship, loyalty and
      lost Numenor -- I think the film (at least the DVD) did OK (not the
      Numenor part, though) with that, not nearly half as well as the books,
      but OK. I The films simply are not -- although Jackson's love for the
      material does show -- as deep or as well crafted as Tolkien books, you
      have no argument from me there. Neither Jackson nor the screenwriters
      are the master story-maker that Tolkien was. (And, never will be.)
      Lezlie



      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Croft, Janet B." <jbcroft@o...> wrote:
      >
      > Well, the thing is, T-Faramir (Tolkien-Faramir) says this BEFORE being
      > tested -- before he even knows for sure what Frodo carries or what his
      > quest is. And then he stands by what he says -- that is his test. I
      > admit I do not have the films memorized, but it seems to me that
      > J-Faramir tried to take the Ring from Frodo in an attempt to curry favor
      > with his father -- not an act T-Faramir would ever contemplate, and not
      > a sterling motivation either.
      >
      >
      > Janet
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of Lezlie
      > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:46 AM
      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [mythsoc] Re: "good" characters in fiction
      >
      > Yes-- after being tested. I always liked Faramir-- because he has an
      > interesting path in the book. I still don't see him as "turning into
      > Boromir" -- who was good, he was *tempted*, and gained redemption in the
      > end. I think Jackson did a pretty good job -- if not perfect -- with
      > Boromir, because is a more familiar character to a modern film
      > maker-- flawed, but essentially good. <snip>.
      >
      > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Croft, Janet B." <jbcroft@o...> wrote:
      > >
      > > "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas
      >
      > > Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the
      > > weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory." (Book 4, chap. 5)
      > >
      > > He's quite a bit more sterling in the book.
      > >
      > >
      > > Janet
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On
      > > Behalf Of Lezlie
      > > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:55 AM
      > > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [mythsoc] Re: "good" characters in fiction
      > >
      > > Hi-- I am arriving late to this discussion -- I have the DVD and was
      > > just watching it with a friend (by happenstance) -- I don't see this
      > > "Faramir turning into Boromir" thing... other stuff is all wrong with
      > > the film, but, I don't see that one...
      > >
      > > He is a truly sterling character, though. Lezlie
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "menelvagor1939" <menelvagor1939@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Mike,
      > > >
      > > > I would certainly agree with you about Faramir. Indeed, one of the
      > > > major blunders that Peter Jackson makes in his cinematic version of
      > > > THE TWO TOWERS is to turn Faramir into Boromir.
      > > >
      > > > I'm not sure which characters you're referring to in Huck Finn, but
      > > > I would say that a comic novel rathers detracts from goodness in
      > itself.
      > > >
      > > > I can't speak about Graham Greene since, whenever I tried him, I
      > > > found
      > >
      > > > him too gloomy for my taste. I don't know Jon Hassler, and am
      > > > uncertain which characters of Jane Austen you favour. Could you
      > > > elaborate?
      > > >
      > > > Ben
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@d...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm late to this party, so perhaps Faramir, Huck Finn, and Graham
      > > > > Greene's whiskey priest from The Power & The Glory have already
      > > > > been
      > >
      > > > > introduced, as well as some characters of Jane Austen and Jon
      > > Hassler.
      > > > >
      > > > > Mike Foster
      > > > >
      > > > > mlcvamp@a... wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > >I think Madeleine L'Engle is another author with an extraordinary
      >
      > > > > >talent for creating believable, three-dimensional good
      > characters.
      > > > > >Consider the Murry family and the Austin family.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >Margaret Carter
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org Yahoo!
      > > > > >Groups
      > >
      > > > > >Links
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
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      > > > > >
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      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org Yahoo! Groups
      > > Links
      > >
      >
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      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org Yahoo! Groups
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