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Re: "The beauty of the female" quote in THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH

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  • menelvagor1939
    While reading the reponses to yesterday s query about a LOTR quote, I note my query below has been met with a deafening silence. I presume that means you share
    Message 1 of 58 , Jan 9, 2006
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      While reading the reponses to yesterday's query about a LOTR quote, I
      note my query below has been met with a deafening silence. I presume
      that means you share the general ignorance about the origin of this
      quote.

      Well then, is there anyone that you know of that might be in a
      position to know? For example, are any close associates of Lewis such
      as Walter Hooper still alive and willing and able to respond to
      questions?

      Thanks for any help.


      Menelvagor





      In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "menelvagor1939" <menelvagor1939@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi everybody,
      >
      > Happy new year!
      >
      > As a new member, I would like to know if anyone in this group has been
      > able to identify "the beauty of the female" quote in THS. Over a year
      > ago I posted this query to various Lewis and Inklings news groups,
      > but no one was able to identify it. ( However, one person had found a
      > group where part of the quote was given in German without
      > attribution.) Searches on the Internet and in dictionaries of
      > quotations also turned up nothing. To my mind, the quote might have
      > been written by Charles Williams, but as far as I know, he didn't. I
      > begin to think, as some people do, that Lewis may have written it
      > himself. What do you think?
      >
      > I give my original posting below:
      >
      > Hi everybody!
      >
      > Does any one happen to know the source of an unattributed quote about
      > "the beauty of the female" from THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH? I spent all day
      > yesterday doing an Internet search in likely sources such as George
      > MacDonald, but ended up little wiser than when I started. I did find
      > that the question had been raised several times in the newsgroup <alt.
      > books.c.s-lewis>, but that no one save one person who had found part
      > of the quote in GERMAN knew anything about it. Here is the quote:
      >
      > The beauty of the female is the root of joy to the female as well as
      > to the male, and it is no accident that the goddess of Love is older
      > and stronger than the god. To desire the desiring of her own beauty is
      > the vanity of Lilith, but to desire the enjoying of her own beauty is
      > the obedience of Eve, and to both is in the lover that the beloved
      > tastes her own delightfulness. As obedience is the stairway of
      > pleasure, so humility is the ---
      >
      > ( -- C. S. Lewis, THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH, MacMillan, NY, 1968, pp.
      62-3)
      >
      > The quote is in the context of Jane's being conducted by Camilla to an
      > interview with Miss Ironwood, and later with the Director. As Jane
      > follows Camilla through the extensive gardens at St. Anne's, she is
      > reminded of various literary gardens all the way back to the original
      > walled Paradise. At that point her memory calls up the beginning of
      > the above quote and a few minutes later in Miss Ironwood's rooom, Jane
      > reads the whole quote in an open book on the table. This obviously is
      > an instance of Jane's foreknowing, but it also a remembering of a
      > deeper wisdom about human relationships. The last part of the quote
      > about obedience being the stairway of pleasure obviously foreshadows
      > the Director's statement that obedience is an erotic necessity and
      > his telling Jane that his Masters would say that she had not failed in
      > obedience through lack of love, but had lost love because she had
      > never attempted obedience. (THS, p. 147)
      >
      > It seems to me that if Lewis is genuinely quoting, then the source
      > must be in a modern romantic writer writing in something like the
      > mode of the medieval romances.
      >
      > Can anyone help me with this?
      >
      > Menelvagor
      >
    • Lezlie
      Me too. Darn it. Lezlie
      Message 58 of 58 , Jan 28, 2006
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        Me too. Darn it. Lezlie

        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Mike Foster <mafoster@d...> wrote:
        >
        > "Witch Doctor"...thanks a lot, Diamond...now I've got that inane
        > pre-Chipmunks David Seville tune running through my so-called mind.
        >
        > Cheers not,
        > Mike
        >
        > Lezlie wrote:
        >
        > >--- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Stolzi" <Stolzi@c...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >>----- Original Message -----
        > >>From: "Lezlie" <lezlie1@z...>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>>. It is not
        > >>>a curtesy title, it is an earned title that is recognized by one's
        > >>>peers only after undergoing various examinations, and in most fields,
        > >>>a dissertation or it's equivalent. (Of course, I am not discussing
        > >>>non-western cultures with an intact magico-religious tradition.)
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>Where of course the correct title is "Witch Doctor."
        > >>
        > >>Diamond Proudbrook
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > ><Grin>-- No that's *my* title -- I, indeed, have the bona fides for
        > >both. BTW: one holds a Ph.d., one is a Witch. My fellow graduates,
        > >knowing my "other hat" as a Wiccan, gave me a pair of very nice
        > >rattles at commencement last June. (There are perks for living in the
        > >Bay Area, a place where I am rather conservative.)
        > >
        > >All joking aside, the magico-religious traditions all have their own
        > >titles, it's only the English speaking academics of the 20th century
        > >who came up with the ridiculous (and inaccurate) title of
        > >"witchdoctor" to describe all sorts of mostly unrelated practices.
        > >And, no, I did not write about Wicca in my dissertation. Lezlie <been
        > >out of the Broom Closet for years and years...>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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