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Re: The Attributes Recognized during the Coronation Scene in LWW

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  • Cai Cherie
    I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is crowned at the end of the LWW movie.
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 17, 2005
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      I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is crowned at the end of the LWW movie. It was easy to see that -a- pattern was meant, but what exactly -the- pattern was and meant, well, that was another matter. I was going in circles till someone mentioned the 4 cardinal virtues and then everything seemed to fall into place. Or a type of place. There is still room for doubt but the beginnings of sense is appearing. This may have all been bloody obvious to some but for others (like me) it may need some explanation.

      The 4 cardinal virtues are commonly given as Fortitude/Stength, Temperance, Prudence and Justice. Many feel this corresponds to 4 Tarot cards, the cards for Strength, Temperance, The Hermit and Justice. Now, the Tarot does not just have to be used for just fortune-telling. It can be used for its symbolic worth, for meditation and for something called path-working. As such, in the late 19th century, first a French magician, Elephas Levi, and then, a bit later, a British one, Samuel Liddel McGregor Mathers, worked out somewhat different correspondances tween a teaching of Jewish mysticism, The Kabbalah and the Tarot cards, plus astrology and the Hebrew letters (and more, but these are the ones I am most familiar with.) Mathers, who was one of the 3 founders of the Golden Dawn, basicially influenced the Brits who went on to do further work with magical correspondances, most notably Fortune, Crowley and Waite, and all who studied with them. Such as Charles Williams, who, as we know,
      belonged to a later Waitian order.

      So -- where is this longwinded, historical exposition going? Well, to this, the 4 Tarot cards for the 4 virtues, when seen as Kabbalahic correspondances form a sort of cross right at the center of the Kaballah, around a Sefirot called Tiferet, which can mean Beauty, Grace, Mediation and can be symbolized by the heart, a king or a sacrifice. It is the Sefirot where, if one is doing Christian Kabbalah, Jesus Christ is often conceptulized. Its color is golden yellow. If one were to look at Narnia and analyze it by the Kabbala, it is the obvious, really, really obvious place where one would conceptualize Aslan (well, that and Chesed) ( and part of me is kicking myself for not having thought of this -years- ago. Doh!)

      From this Sefirot , are 4 radiating arms or paths that can lead to or away to other Sefirot. To the North is the path of the card for Strength/Fortitude. Its is associated with Leo, with kingship. The Hebrew letter is Tet -- Resolve, Truth, The Intention of Sharing the Goodness of these (or leadership.) Peter is crowned as from the North. This path leads or descends from the Sefirot of Keter, the Crown, the Emperor over the Sea(Keter is associated with Neptune.)

      Ahh-- you say, but Strength is not Magnificenece, thou close. Perhaps, but Tet certianly is. The attibutes of Tet are exactly those of Magnificience if one thinks about Magnificence not as our contemporary, overused word for tacky overconsumption, but as Lewis would have used it, thought it, felt it. As the personifying attribute of Prince Arthur, King Arthur, the Once and Future Really Big Mahoff, as proposed by Edmund Spenser in his letter outlining his intention, his resolve, for the Fairy Queen. Anyone who has been touched by Spenser will vibrate to that association. (I need to go back and reread Lewis's book on Spenser.) BTW -- one of the occult titles for this path is " The Secret Force of All Spiritual Activity." (and, synthasizing symbology still further --may The Force be with you too.)

      To the East is the path of The Hermit, Prudence, Wisdom, which is considered Spiritual Movement. The Hebrew letter is Yod, the Will. One of the titles for it is, " The Isolated Self in the World of Illusions" -- (did I mention Homer's favorite expression -- "the rosey fingers of the DOH" yet?) And Lucy certially knows what -that- feels like. The astrological sign is Virgo, the virgin and the card itself usually shows a cloaked figure in the lonely wild with a ... lantern. To have been so curious, to have explored so bravely, to have been so open to the new, takes valience. Mental valience, mental fight. If Lewis was a knight of the intellect, Lucy was his valient virgin by a lantern in the waste. Her path leads from or to Chesed, which is Mercy, Clemency, Unconditional Love and it is associated with Jupiter and expansion.

      From the West is Edmund the Just. His path is the trump called Justice. Its sign is Libra, its letter is Lamed, --learning, law-- and Edmund certianly learns about justice and law. It is because of his actions that we learn about the truest law, the Deep Magic. He is on the path to or from Gevurah, Serverity, Judgement or Punishment, which is ruled by Mars and Scorpio.

      Susan the Gentle from the South is on the path of Temperence. An old fashioned way of saying that you are tempering something is to say you are gentling it. It is ruled by Sagaterious (so she gets the bow and arrow) and the letter Samech. Samech means protection, support, and Susan is the slightly fiery and occaisionally bossy little mother, providing just that, whether it is appropriate or not. It also means conscience and there is a strong mental aspect to Susan -- she likes to be smart, to do the common sense thing--part of her quest is to temper, gentle, this part of herself. Her path leads to or from Yesod, ruled by the Moon and Cancer. and signifying a womb, a foundation, generation and also, interestingly enough, redemption. Perhaps Lewis did have farther plans for Susan.

      Remember, Aslan is at the center of all this, the foci of the cross, the Spirit at the center of the 4 elements. I know some of you may think I'm a bit daft at this point, but I see this as pretty obvious. And for those who think I'm daft, thank you for reading thru such a long, detail-ridden message.

      What I'm wondering about now, the big question, is what this has to say about Lewis's knowledge of the Western Mystery Tradition. Obviously he knew all the Medieval and Renaissance material, that is a given. But it looks like, by attributing the virtues to the children that he did, that he was quite possibly aware of 19th and 20th century developments that tie together the Kabbala and Tarot. Was this through his earlier friendship with Williams? From his own study? Where is this coming from ... and why did the movie chose to reinforce it with extra imagery taken from the same framework? If I may say, this seems to open an interesting, previously unexplored door in Lewis studies.

      Should I rework this piece for the Mythlore movie review thing? Would it include enough movie stuff to qualify? I do feel there is something new here, thou I only stumbled upon it because of others' kind promptings. And this puzzles me, others must have noticed some of this stuff before now. Why has it never been written up? I don't remember Gareth Knight's book on the Inklings covering this. Since much of my first, now half-forgotten knowledge of Kabbalah and Tarot comes from an earlier book by him, why didn't Knight mention anything? Or did he, and I missed it?

      ---------

      Hey-- I finaly wrote a post without insulting anybody! I had not realized how much my style rests on snide humor and overexageration till I decided to gentle it. As Lewis says -- you never know quite how bad you are till you try to change for the better...

      But how does one keep the humor but loose the snide? .... hmmmm. Or show something for what it is without being unfair? Double hmmmm.

      Or not let lies thrown around by others get so far up one's capacious nose?

      Cai








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    • David Bratman
      ... If you re going to write a paper on this, you might compare this to the characteristics of the planetary spirits as given in the Descent of the Gods
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 17, 2005
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        At 10:26 AM 12/17/2005 -0800, Cai Cherie wrote:
        > I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the titles
        >and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is crowned at the end
        >of the LWW movie.

        If you're going to write a paper on this, you might compare this to the
        characteristics of the planetary spirits as given in the "Descent of the
        Gods" chapter of _That Hideous Strength_. They're not the personalities of
        the equivalent Greek gods, they're not (as far as I know) modern
        astrological convention. Instead, Lewis used the same kinds of "Western
        Mystery Tradition" sources you refer to here. (I doubt he knew much about
        Kabala per se.)

        Another person who used the same characteristics for his planetary spirits
        was the composer Gustav Holst in his suite "The Planets".

        - David Bratman
      • Charlie Flynn
        Cai, Please do not confuse what Disney and their screenwriters did with what C.S.Lewis wrote. The story as written by Mr. Lewis does not mention these points
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 17, 2005
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          Cai,

          Please do not confuse what Disney and their screenwriters did with
          what C.S.Lewis wrote. The story as written by Mr. Lewis does not
          mention these points of the compass that has you chasing after
          kabalas, tet, chi, islam, tarot, or any of the other teachings of
          man. It tells that in their latter years, after the children grew up
          in Narnia, Peter became a tall and deep-chested man and a great
          warrior, and for this reason he was called King Peter the
          Magnificent. And Susan began to be courted by ambassadors from beyond
          the sea (which lay to the East of Narnia by the way) and she was
          called Queen Susan the Gentle. Edmund became a graver and quieter
          man than Peter, great in both council and judgment and was called
          King Edmund the Just. While Lucy was always gay and golden haired
          and her own people called her Queen Lucy the Valiant. None of these
          titles or attributes were given them by Aslan (according to Lewis)
          but rather were given to them by their subjects and admirers.

          Please remember that Mr. Lewis was first and foremost a Christian at
          the time he wrote these fables with the intent of giving to the
          children of his time a means by which they could understand what
          Jesus did for them when He died for their sins. For years Mr. Lewis
          was a died-in-the-wool atheist. Then he set out to prove
          scholastically that GOD could not exist. Yet at every turn and every
          argument GOD showed Himself until Lewis finally had to admit that he
          had proved beyond any further doubt the actual existence of GOD. Mr.
          Lewis then sought to give to us all his learned-man understanding of
          GOD.

          MSN Encarta begins its entry on him:
          Lewis, C(live) S(taples) (1898-1963), English critic, scholar, and
          novelist, best known for his books dealing factually or imaginatively
          with religion. Lewis was one of the most popular and influential
          modern defenders of the Christian faith. His series of "Narnia" books
          for children retells the Christian story in fairy-tale form.

          This should help clear up your puzzlings as mentioned in your text.
          To be blunt, the pattern is all movie-land and Disney's pixie dust
          (maybe you could find out who among that group has the learning
          of "the dark side of the force" and placed it in the movie). As a
          Christian, Lewis did not place western mystery traditions in his post-
          revelation novels (I do not know if his athiest period had anything
          to do with spiritualism). And, your being able to see what others
          must have seen before? a simple case of it not being there before.

          Forgive me if my wording has put you off in any way. My intention is
          not insult or belittling but rather educating and setting the record
          straight.

          Charlie Flynn,
          Kilgore, Texas

          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Cai Cherie <eternityfindsitself@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the
          titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is
          crowned at the end of the LWW movie. It was easy to see that -a-
          pattern was meant, but what exactly -the- pattern was and meant,
          well, that was another matter. I was going in circles till someone
          mentioned the 4 cardinal virtues and then everything seemed to fall
          into place. Or a type of place. There is still room for doubt but the
          beginnings of sense is appearing. This may have all been bloody
          obvious to some but for others (like me) it may need some
          explanation.
          >
          > The 4 cardinal virtues are commonly given as Fortitude/Stength,
          Temperance, Prudence and Justice. Many feel this corresponds to 4
          Tarot cards, the cards for Strength, Temperance, The Hermit and
          Justice. Now, the Tarot does not just have to be used for just
          fortune-telling. It can be used for its symbolic worth, for
          meditation and for something called path-working. As such, in the
          late 19th century, first a French magician, Elephas Levi, and then, a
          bit later, a British one, Samuel Liddel McGregor Mathers, worked out
          somewhat different correspondances tween a teaching of Jewish
          mysticism, The Kabbalah and the Tarot cards, plus astrology and the
          Hebrew letters (and more, but these are the ones I am most familiar
          with.) Mathers, who was one of the 3 founders of the Golden Dawn,
          basicially influenced the Brits who went on to do further work with
          magical correspondances, most notably Fortune, Crowley and Waite, and
          all who studied with them. Such as Charles Williams, who, as we know,
          > belonged to a later Waitian order.
          >
          > So -- where is this longwinded, historical exposition going?
          Well, to this, the 4 Tarot cards for the 4 virtues, when seen as
          Kabbalahic correspondances form a sort of cross right at the center
          of the Kaballah, around a Sefirot called Tiferet, which can mean
          Beauty, Grace, Mediation and can be symbolized by the heart, a king
          or a sacrifice. It is the Sefirot where, if one is doing Christian
          Kabbalah, Jesus Christ is often conceptulized. Its color is golden
          yellow. If one were to look at Narnia and analyze it by the Kabbala,
          it is the obvious, really, really obvious place where one would
          conceptualize Aslan (well, that and Chesed) ( and part of me is
          kicking myself for not having thought of this -years- ago. Doh!)
          >
          > From this Sefirot , are 4 radiating arms or paths that can lead
          to or away to other Sefirot. To the North is the path of the card
          for Strength/Fortitude. Its is associated with Leo, with kingship.
          The Hebrew letter is Tet -- Resolve, Truth, The Intention of
          Sharing the Goodness of these (or leadership.) Peter is crowned as
          from the North. This path leads or descends from the Sefirot of
          Keter, the Crown, the Emperor over the Sea(Keter is associated with
          Neptune.)
          >
          > Ahh-- you say, but Strength is not Magnificenece, thou close.
          Perhaps, but Tet certianly is. The attibutes of Tet are exactly
          those of Magnificience if one thinks about Magnificence not as our
          contemporary, overused word for tacky overconsumption, but as Lewis
          would have used it, thought it, felt it. As the personifying
          attribute of Prince Arthur, King Arthur, the Once and Future Really
          Big Mahoff, as proposed by Edmund Spenser in his letter outlining his
          intention, his resolve, for the Fairy Queen. Anyone who has been
          touched by Spenser will vibrate to that association. (I need to go
          back and reread Lewis's book on Spenser.) BTW -- one of the occult
          titles for this path is " The Secret Force of All Spiritual
          Activity." (and, synthasizing symbology still further --may The Force
          be with you too.)
          >
          > To the East is the path of The Hermit, Prudence, Wisdom, which is
          considered Spiritual Movement. The Hebrew letter is Yod, the Will.
          One of the titles for it is, " The Isolated Self in the World of
          Illusions" -- (did I mention Homer's favorite expression -- "the
          rosey fingers of the DOH" yet?) And Lucy certially knows what -that-
          feels like. The astrological sign is Virgo, the virgin and the card
          itself usually shows a cloaked figure in the lonely wild with a ...
          lantern. To have been so curious, to have explored so bravely, to
          have been so open to the new, takes valience. Mental valience, mental
          fight. If Lewis was a knight of the intellect, Lucy was his valient
          virgin by a lantern in the waste. Her path leads from or to Chesed,
          which is Mercy, Clemency, Unconditional Love and it is associated
          with Jupiter and expansion.
          >
          > From the West is Edmund the Just. His path is the trump called
          Justice. Its sign is Libra, its letter is Lamed, --learning, law--
          and Edmund certianly learns about justice and law. It is because of
          his actions that we learn about the truest law, the Deep Magic. He is
          on the path to or from Gevurah, Serverity, Judgement or Punishment,
          which is ruled by Mars and Scorpio.
          >
          > Susan the Gentle from the South is on the path of Temperence. An
          old fashioned way of saying that you are tempering something is to
          say you are gentling it. It is ruled by Sagaterious (so she gets the
          bow and arrow) and the letter Samech. Samech means protection,
          support, and Susan is the slightly fiery and occaisionally bossy
          little mother, providing just that, whether it is appropriate or not.
          It also means conscience and there is a strong mental aspect to
          Susan -- she likes to be smart, to do the common sense thing--part of
          her quest is to temper, gentle, this part of herself. Her path leads
          to or from Yesod, ruled by the Moon and Cancer. and signifying a
          womb, a foundation, generation and also, interestingly enough,
          redemption. Perhaps Lewis did have farther plans for Susan.
          >
          > Remember, Aslan is at the center of all this, the foci of the
          cross, the Spirit at the center of the 4 elements. I know some of you
          may think I'm a bit daft at this point, but I see this as pretty
          obvious. And for those who think I'm daft, thank you for reading
          thru such a long, detail-ridden message.
          >
          > What I'm wondering about now, the big question, is what this has
          to say about Lewis's knowledge of the Western Mystery Tradition.
          Obviously he knew all the Medieval and Renaissance material, that is
          a given. But it looks like, by attributing the virtues to the
          children that he did, that he was quite possibly aware of 19th and
          20th century developments that tie together the Kabbala and Tarot.
          Was this through his earlier friendship with Williams? From his own
          study? Where is this coming from ... and why did the movie chose to
          reinforce it with extra imagery taken from the same framework? If I
          may say, this seems to open an interesting, previously unexplored
          door in Lewis studies.
          >
          > Should I rework this piece for the Mythlore movie review thing?
          Would it include enough movie stuff to qualify? I do feel there is
          something new here, thou I only stumbled upon it because of others'
          kind promptings. And this puzzles me, others must have noticed some
          of this stuff before now. Why has it never been written up? I don't
          remember Gareth Knight's book on the Inklings covering this. Since
          much of my first, now half-forgotten knowledge of Kabbalah and Tarot
          comes from an earlier book by him, why didn't Knight mention
          anything? Or did he, and I missed it?
          >
          > ---------
          >
          > Hey-- I finaly wrote a post without insulting anybody! I had not
          realized how much my style rests on snide humor and overexageration
          till I decided to gentle it. As Lewis says -- you never know quite
          how bad you are till you try to change for the better...
          >
          > But how does one keep the humor but loose the snide? .... hmmmm.
          Or show something for what it is without being unfair? Double hmmmm.
          >
          > Or not let lies thrown around by others get so far up one's
          capacious nose?
          >
          > Cai
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • John D Rateliff
          Big announcement for those who like anime and the work of Ursula K. Le Guin: Studio Ghibli, makers of the best fantasy films in the world, have announced that
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 18, 2005
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            Big announcement for those who like anime and the work of Ursula
            K. Le Guin: Studio Ghibli, makers of the best fantasy films in the
            world, have announced that their next project will be GEDO SENKI or
            "Tales from Earthsea". Apparently the director will be not Miyazaki
            himself but his son. Here's a link for the movie poster from the
            official Studio Ghibli website--

            http://www.ghibli.jp/images/ged_poster01.jpg

            --and here's an article in English for those of us who don't read
            Japanese:

            http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/7939.html

            I haven't seen any mention of a release date, but from the poster
            I'm assuming it'll be July 2006. Although it's using the title of a
            later volume in the series, my guess would be it's based on A WIZARD
            OF EARTHSEA from the inclusion of Ged's name ("GEDO") in the Japanese
            title. While it shouldn't be a travesty like that awful thing on the
            Sci-Fi network, it probably won't be entirely faithful to the
            original either; Ghibli tends to re-create the books they adapt. The
            results are very, very good, but not the same as the book (cf. HOWL'S
            MOVING CASTLE).

            --JDR


            "Once, Man and Dragon were one.
            Man chose Earth and Sea,
            and Dragon chose Wind and Fire."



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lezlie
            One hopes it will be a good one. I haven t seen anything about in on LeGuin s web site-- Ged looks a *little young* in the poster... Lezlie
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 19, 2005
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              One hopes it will be a good one. I haven't seen anything about in on
              LeGuin's web site--
              Ged looks a *little young* in the poster... Lezlie

              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@e...> wrote:
              >
              > Big announcement for those who like anime and the work of Ursula
              > K. Le Guin: Studio Ghibli, makers of the best fantasy films in the
              > world, have announced that their next project will be GEDO SENKI or
              > "Tales from Earthsea". Apparently the director will be not Miyazaki
              > himself but his son. Here's a link for the movie poster from the
              > official Studio Ghibli website--
              >
              > http://www.ghibli.jp/images/ged_poster01.jpg
              >
              > --and here's an article in English for those of us who don't read
              > Japanese:
              >
              > http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/7939.html
              >
              > I haven't seen any mention of a release date, but from the poster
              > I'm assuming it'll be July 2006. Although it's using the title of a
              > later volume in the series, my guess would be it's based on A WIZARD
              > OF EARTHSEA from the inclusion of Ged's name ("GEDO") in the Japanese
              > title. While it shouldn't be a travesty like that awful thing on the
              > Sci-Fi network, it probably won't be entirely faithful to the
              > original either; Ghibli tends to re-create the books they adapt. The
              > results are very, very good, but not the same as the book (cf. HOWL'S
              > MOVING CASTLE).
              >
              > --JDR
              >
              >
              > "Once, Man and Dragon were one.
              > Man chose Earth and Sea,
              > and Dragon chose Wind and Fire."
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • AMV Howard
              Not to start a religious war, but how does one distinguish between western mystery traditions and Christianity? They re fairly well intertwined, and I can t
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 19, 2005
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                Not to start a religious war, but how does one distinguish between western
                mystery traditions and Christianity? They're fairly well intertwined, and I
                can't help but think of the heavy influence of the former on Charles
                Williams. Of course, many other people on this list are far more adept
                Lewis scholars than I, and may correct me on this point, but I had been
                under the impression that Williams and Lewis were rather close, and I would
                assume that Lewis would be likewise aware of the tarot and other mystical
                trappings. I'm not saying that he did put them into Narnia, but I wouldn't
                be so quick to dismiss it merely on the grounds of his Christianity.

                (did that make sense? I'm still recovering from post-thesis-turnin brain
                melt, so forgive me if I'm less coherent than usual)

                Alana

                On 12/18/05, Charlie Flynn <mythsoc@...> wrote:
                >
                > Cai,
                >
                > Please do not confuse what Disney and their screenwriters did with
                > what C.S.Lewis wrote. The story as written by Mr. Lewis does not
                > mention these points of the compass that has you chasing after
                > kabalas, tet, chi, islam, tarot, or any of the other teachings of
                > man. It tells that in their latter years, after the children grew up
                > in Narnia, Peter became a tall and deep-chested man and a great
                > warrior, and for this reason he was called King Peter the
                > Magnificent. And Susan began to be courted by ambassadors from beyond
                > the sea (which lay to the East of Narnia by the way) and she was
                > called Queen Susan the Gentle. Edmund became a graver and quieter
                > man than Peter, great in both council and judgment and was called
                > King Edmund the Just. While Lucy was always gay and golden haired
                > and her own people called her Queen Lucy the Valiant. None of these
                > titles or attributes were given them by Aslan (according to Lewis)
                > but rather were given to them by their subjects and admirers.
                >
                > Please remember that Mr. Lewis was first and foremost a Christian at
                > the time he wrote these fables with the intent of giving to the
                > children of his time a means by which they could understand what
                > Jesus did for them when He died for their sins. For years Mr. Lewis
                > was a died-in-the-wool atheist. Then he set out to prove
                > scholastically that GOD could not exist. Yet at every turn and every
                > argument GOD showed Himself until Lewis finally had to admit that he
                > had proved beyond any further doubt the actual existence of GOD. Mr.
                > Lewis then sought to give to us all his learned-man understanding of
                > GOD.
                >
                > MSN Encarta begins its entry on him:
                > Lewis, C(live) S(taples) (1898-1963), English critic, scholar, and
                > novelist, best known for his books dealing factually or imaginatively
                > with religion. Lewis was one of the most popular and influential
                > modern defenders of the Christian faith. His series of "Narnia" books
                > for children retells the Christian story in fairy-tale form.
                >
                > This should help clear up your puzzlings as mentioned in your text.
                > To be blunt, the pattern is all movie-land and Disney's pixie dust
                > (maybe you could find out who among that group has the learning
                > of "the dark side of the force" and placed it in the movie). As a
                > Christian, Lewis did not place western mystery traditions in his post-
                > revelation novels (I do not know if his athiest period had anything
                > to do with spiritualism). And, your being able to see what others
                > must have seen before? a simple case of it not being there before.
                >
                > Forgive me if my wording has put you off in any way. My intention is
                > not insult or belittling but rather educating and setting the record
                > straight.
                >
                > Charlie Flynn,
                > Kilgore, Texas
                >
                > --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Cai Cherie <eternityfindsitself@y...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the
                > titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is
                > crowned at the end of the LWW movie. It was easy to see that -a-
                > pattern was meant, but what exactly -the- pattern was and meant,
                > well, that was another matter. I was going in circles till someone
                > mentioned the 4 cardinal virtues and then everything seemed to fall
                > into place. Or a type of place. There is still room for doubt but the
                > beginnings of sense is appearing. This may have all been bloody
                > obvious to some but for others (like me) it may need some
                > explanation.
                > >
                > > The 4 cardinal virtues are commonly given as Fortitude/Stength,
                > Temperance, Prudence and Justice. Many feel this corresponds to 4
                > Tarot cards, the cards for Strength, Temperance, The Hermit and
                > Justice. Now, the Tarot does not just have to be used for just
                > fortune-telling. It can be used for its symbolic worth, for
                > meditation and for something called path-working. As such, in the
                > late 19th century, first a French magician, Elephas Levi, and then, a
                > bit later, a British one, Samuel Liddel McGregor Mathers, worked out
                > somewhat different correspondances tween a teaching of Jewish
                > mysticism, The Kabbalah and the Tarot cards, plus astrology and the
                > Hebrew letters (and more, but these are the ones I am most familiar
                > with.) Mathers, who was one of the 3 founders of the Golden Dawn,
                > basicially influenced the Brits who went on to do further work with
                > magical correspondances, most notably Fortune, Crowley and Waite, and
                > all who studied with them. Such as Charles Williams, who, as we know,
                > > belonged to a later Waitian order.
                > >
                > > So -- where is this longwinded, historical exposition going?
                > Well, to this, the 4 Tarot cards for the 4 virtues, when seen as
                > Kabbalahic correspondances form a sort of cross right at the center
                > of the Kaballah, around a Sefirot called Tiferet, which can mean
                > Beauty, Grace, Mediation and can be symbolized by the heart, a king
                > or a sacrifice. It is the Sefirot where, if one is doing Christian
                > Kabbalah, Jesus Christ is often conceptulized. Its color is golden
                > yellow. If one were to look at Narnia and analyze it by the Kabbala,
                > it is the obvious, really, really obvious place where one would
                > conceptualize Aslan (well, that and Chesed) ( and part of me is
                > kicking myself for not having thought of this -years- ago. Doh!)
                > >
                > > From this Sefirot , are 4 radiating arms or paths that can lead
                > to or away to other Sefirot. To the North is the path of the card
                > for Strength/Fortitude. Its is associated with Leo, with kingship.
                > The Hebrew letter is Tet -- Resolve, Truth, The Intention of
                > Sharing the Goodness of these (or leadership.) Peter is crowned as
                > from the North. This path leads or descends from the Sefirot of
                > Keter, the Crown, the Emperor over the Sea(Keter is associated with
                > Neptune.)
                > >
                > > Ahh-- you say, but Strength is not Magnificenece, thou close.
                > Perhaps, but Tet certianly is. The attibutes of Tet are exactly
                > those of Magnificience if one thinks about Magnificence not as our
                > contemporary, overused word for tacky overconsumption, but as Lewis
                > would have used it, thought it, felt it. As the personifying
                > attribute of Prince Arthur, King Arthur, the Once and Future Really
                > Big Mahoff, as proposed by Edmund Spenser in his letter outlining his
                > intention, his resolve, for the Fairy Queen. Anyone who has been
                > touched by Spenser will vibrate to that association. (I need to go
                > back and reread Lewis's book on Spenser.) BTW -- one of the occult
                > titles for this path is " The Secret Force of All Spiritual
                > Activity." (and, synthasizing symbology still further --may The Force
                > be with you too.)
                > >
                > > To the East is the path of The Hermit, Prudence, Wisdom, which is
                > considered Spiritual Movement. The Hebrew letter is Yod, the Will.
                > One of the titles for it is, " The Isolated Self in the World of
                > Illusions" -- (did I mention Homer's favorite expression -- "the
                > rosey fingers of the DOH" yet?) And Lucy certially knows what -that-
                > feels like. The astrological sign is Virgo, the virgin and the card
                > itself usually shows a cloaked figure in the lonely wild with a ...
                > lantern. To have been so curious, to have explored so bravely, to
                > have been so open to the new, takes valience. Mental valience, mental
                > fight. If Lewis was a knight of the intellect, Lucy was his valient
                > virgin by a lantern in the waste. Her path leads from or to Chesed,
                > which is Mercy, Clemency, Unconditional Love and it is associated
                > with Jupiter and expansion.
                > >
                > > From the West is Edmund the Just. His path is the trump called
                > Justice. Its sign is Libra, its letter is Lamed, --learning, law--
                > and Edmund certianly learns about justice and law. It is because of
                > his actions that we learn about the truest law, the Deep Magic. He is
                > on the path to or from Gevurah, Serverity, Judgement or Punishment,
                > which is ruled by Mars and Scorpio.
                > >
                > > Susan the Gentle from the South is on the path of Temperence. An
                > old fashioned way of saying that you are tempering something is to
                > say you are gentling it. It is ruled by Sagaterious (so she gets the
                > bow and arrow) and the letter Samech. Samech means protection,
                > support, and Susan is the slightly fiery and occaisionally bossy
                > little mother, providing just that, whether it is appropriate or not.
                > It also means conscience and there is a strong mental aspect to
                > Susan -- she likes to be smart, to do the common sense thing--part of
                > her quest is to temper, gentle, this part of herself. Her path leads
                > to or from Yesod, ruled by the Moon and Cancer. and signifying a
                > womb, a foundation, generation and also, interestingly enough,
                > redemption. Perhaps Lewis did have farther plans for Susan.
                > >
                > > Remember, Aslan is at the center of all this, the foci of the
                > cross, the Spirit at the center of the 4 elements. I know some of you
                > may think I'm a bit daft at this point, but I see this as pretty
                > obvious. And for those who think I'm daft, thank you for reading
                > thru such a long, detail-ridden message.
                > >
                > > What I'm wondering about now, the big question, is what this has
                > to say about Lewis's knowledge of the Western Mystery Tradition.
                > Obviously he knew all the Medieval and Renaissance material, that is
                > a given. But it looks like, by attributing the virtues to the
                > children that he did, that he was quite possibly aware of 19th and
                > 20th century developments that tie together the Kabbala and Tarot.
                > Was this through his earlier friendship with Williams? From his own
                > study? Where is this coming from ... and why did the movie chose to
                > reinforce it with extra imagery taken from the same framework? If I
                > may say, this seems to open an interesting, previously unexplored
                > door in Lewis studies.
                > >
                > > Should I rework this piece for the Mythlore movie review thing?
                > Would it include enough movie stuff to qualify? I do feel there is
                > something new here, thou I only stumbled upon it because of others'
                > kind promptings. And this puzzles me, others must have noticed some
                > of this stuff before now. Why has it never been written up? I don't
                > remember Gareth Knight's book on the Inklings covering this. Since
                > much of my first, now half-forgotten knowledge of Kabbalah and Tarot
                > comes from an earlier book by him, why didn't Knight mention
                > anything? Or did he, and I missed it?
                > >
                > > ---------
                > >
                > > Hey-- I finaly wrote a post without insulting anybody! I had not
                > realized how much my style rests on snide humor and overexageration
                > till I decided to gentle it. As Lewis says -- you never know quite
                > how bad you are till you try to change for the better...
                > >
                > > But how does one keep the humor but loose the snide? .... hmmmm.
                > Or show something for what it is without being unfair? Double hmmmm.
                > >
                > > Or not let lies thrown around by others get so far up one's
                > capacious nose?
                > >
                > > Cai
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------
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                >
                >
                > - Visit your group "mythsoc <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc>"
                > on the web.
                >
                > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                >
                > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------
                >



                --
                Alana Vincent Howard
                Prescott College
                Master of Arts Program

                770.419.8727


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John D Rateliff
                ... Many of the western mystery traditions were built up as alternatives to the dominant belief system; that s why, for years, Catholics were forbidden to join
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 20, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Dec 19, 2005, at 7:16 PM, AMV Howard wrote:
                  > Not to start a religious war, but how does one distinguish between
                  > western
                  > mystery traditions and Christianity? They're fairly well
                  > intertwined, and I
                  > can't help but think of the heavy influence of the former on Charles
                  > Williams. Of course, many other people on this list are far more
                  > adept
                  > Lewis scholars than I, and may correct me on this point, but I had
                  > been
                  > under the impression that Williams and Lewis were rather close, and
                  > I would
                  > assume that Lewis would be likewise aware of the tarot and other
                  > mystical
                  > trappings. I'm not saying that he did put them into Narnia, but I
                  > wouldn't
                  > be so quick to dismiss it merely on the grounds of his Christianity.

                  Many of the western mystery traditions were built up as alternatives
                  to the dominant belief system; that's why, for years, Catholics were
                  forbidden to join the Masons (and created their own pseudo-masonic
                  fraternal order instead, the Knights of Columbus). Williams and Waite
                  were unusual in that they tried to collapse or reconcile the two
                  traditions; MacGregor Mathers and Yeats were more typical in
                  exploring tarot and practical magic precisely because it offered a
                  new way of looking at the world (cf. Yeats' A VISION, which presents
                  his tarot-esque symbology for the phases of the moon). Lewis knew a
                  lot about medieval Xian symbology (cf. THE DISCARDED IMAGE) but went
                  out of his way to dismiss anything that smacked of magical mysticism*
                  --cf. his treatment of Yeats in DYMER (for which he later
                  apologized), or his linkage of magic and science together as twin
                  evils near the end of MIRACLES (since both lack what he saw as the
                  necessary total submission to the will of God). In all probablity he
                  knew no more of the tarot than is revealed in THE GREATER TRUMPS
                  (i.e., not much). There's also a revealing moment in Warnie's diaries
                  that makes it clear he shared his brother's instinctive mistrust of
                  "magic". There's not much doubt that Williams hid his involvement in
                  the Golden Dawn movement from his fellow Inklings; Tolkien's eventual
                  discovery of it seems to have been a factor in his later criticisms
                  of C.W.
                  So, while there were and are many Christians who embraced and
                  made good use of those traditions (e.g., T.S. Eliot in "The Waste
                  Land"), CSL wasn't one of them; his attitude was total hostility.
                  Which is odd, given his tolerance of pagan myth and adoration of
                  Platonism, but so it goes.

                  --JDR

                  --current reading: GOD'S SECRETARIES: THE MAKING OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE
                  --current listening: John Lawlor, MEMORIES AND REFLECTIONS (read by
                  Bernard Mayes)


                  (*partly because he believed, bizarrely enough, that an interest in
                  non-Xian supernaturalism could lead to insanity--cf. his reaction to
                  the death of Mrs. Moore's brother)






                  >
                  > (did that make sense? I'm still recovering from post-thesis-turnin
                  > brain
                  > melt, so forgive me if I'm less coherent than usual)

                  Congratulations of having achieves this academic milestone.
                  > --
                  > Alana Vincent Howard
                  > Prescott College
                  > Master of Arts Program



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John D Rateliff
                  I don t think CSL knew enough about the tarot, except in a very superficial sense, but I suspect you could find some of the symbolic analogies you re looking
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 20, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I don't think CSL knew enough about the tarot, except in a very
                    superficial sense, but I suspect you could find some of the symbolic
                    analogies you're looking for in THE DISCARDED IMAGE.
                    Of course, symbols can be present without the author's being
                    aware of them (Tolkien's "applicability"), so the quartet of Narnian
                    kings and queens could be interpreted from the tarot, but I'd be wary
                    of saying that Lewis meant them in those terms. There's a big
                    difference between the way Tolkien, who disdained the Jungian
                    approach, portrays Gollum as opposed to the way Le Guin, who has read
                    her Jung, portray's Ged's Shadow.
                    I'm pretty sure CSL was entirely uninformed about Kaballah.
                    Likewise astrology.
                    Thanks for sharing; it was an interesting 'take' on the pattern.
                    --JDR

                    On Dec 17, 2005, at 10:26 AM, Cai Cherie wrote:

                    > I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the
                    > titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is
                    > crowned at the end of the LWW movie. It was easy to see that -a-
                    > pattern was meant, but what exactly -the- pattern was and meant,
                    > well, that was another matter. I was going in circles till someone
                    > mentioned the 4 cardinal virtues and then everything seemed to fall
                    > into place. Or a type of place. There is still room for doubt but
                    > the beginnings of sense is appearing. This may have all been
                    > bloody obvious to some but for others (like me) it may need some
                    > explanation.
                    >
                    > The 4 cardinal virtues are commonly given as Fortitude/Stength,
                    > Temperance, Prudence and Justice. Many feel this corresponds to 4
                    > Tarot cards, the cards for Strength, Temperance, The Hermit and
                    > Justice. Now, the Tarot does not just have to be used for just
                    > fortune-telling. It can be used for its symbolic worth, for
                    > meditation and for something called path-working. As such, in the
                    > late 19th century, first a French magician, Elephas Levi, and then,
                    > a bit later, a British one, Samuel Liddel McGregor Mathers, worked
                    > out somewhat different correspondances tween a teaching of Jewish
                    > mysticism, The Kabbalah and the Tarot cards, plus astrology and
                    > the Hebrew letters (and more, but these are the ones I am most
                    > familiar with.) Mathers, who was one of the 3 founders of the
                    > Golden Dawn, basicially influenced the Brits who went on to do
                    > further work with magical correspondances, most notably Fortune,
                    > Crowley and Waite, and all who studied with them. Such as Charles
                    > Williams, who, as we know,
                    > belonged to a later Waitian order.
                    >
                    > So -- where is this longwinded, historical exposition going?
                    > Well, to this, the 4 Tarot cards for the 4 virtues, when seen as
                    > Kabbalahic correspondances form a sort of cross right at the center
                    > of the Kaballah, around a Sefirot called Tiferet, which can mean
                    > Beauty, Grace, Mediation and can be symbolized by the heart, a king
                    > or a sacrifice. It is the Sefirot where, if one is doing Christian
                    > Kabbalah, Jesus Christ is often conceptulized. Its color is golden
                    > yellow. If one were to look at Narnia and analyze it by the
                    > Kabbala, it is the obvious, really, really obvious place where one
                    > would conceptualize Aslan (well, that and Chesed) ( and part of me
                    > is kicking myself for not having thought of this -years- ago. Doh!)
                    >
                    > From this Sefirot , are 4 radiating arms or paths that can lead
                    > to or away to other Sefirot. To the North is the path of the card
                    > for Strength/Fortitude. Its is associated with Leo, with kingship.
                    > The Hebrew letter is Tet -- Resolve, Truth, The Intention of
                    > Sharing the Goodness of these (or leadership.) Peter is crowned as
                    > from the North. This path leads or descends from the Sefirot of
                    > Keter, the Crown, the Emperor over the Sea(Keter is associated with
                    > Neptune.)
                    >
                    > Ahh-- you say, but Strength is not Magnificenece, thou close.
                    > Perhaps, but Tet certianly is. The attibutes of Tet are exactly
                    > those of Magnificience if one thinks about Magnificence not as our
                    > contemporary, overused word for tacky overconsumption, but as
                    > Lewis would have used it, thought it, felt it. As the personifying
                    > attribute of Prince Arthur, King Arthur, the Once and Future
                    > Really Big Mahoff, as proposed by Edmund Spenser in his letter
                    > outlining his intention, his resolve, for the Fairy Queen. Anyone
                    > who has been touched by Spenser will vibrate to that association.
                    > (I need to go back and reread Lewis's book on Spenser.) BTW -- one
                    > of the occult titles for this path is " The Secret Force of All
                    > Spiritual Activity." (and, synthasizing symbology still further --
                    > may The Force be with you too.)
                    >
                    > To the East is the path of The Hermit, Prudence, Wisdom, which is
                    > considered Spiritual Movement. The Hebrew letter is Yod, the Will.
                    > One of the titles for it is, " The Isolated Self in the World of
                    > Illusions" -- (did I mention Homer's favorite expression -- "the
                    > rosey fingers of the DOH" yet?) And Lucy certially knows what -
                    > that- feels like. The astrological sign is Virgo, the virgin and
                    > the card itself usually shows a cloaked figure in the lonely wild
                    > with a ... lantern. To have been so curious, to have explored so
                    > bravely, to have been so open to the new, takes valience. Mental
                    > valience, mental fight. If Lewis was a knight of the intellect,
                    > Lucy was his valient virgin by a lantern in the waste. Her path
                    > leads from or to Chesed, which is Mercy, Clemency, Unconditional
                    > Love and it is associated with Jupiter and expansion.
                    >
                    > From the West is Edmund the Just. His path is the trump called
                    > Justice. Its sign is Libra, its letter is Lamed, --learning, law--
                    > and Edmund certianly learns about justice and law. It is because of
                    > his actions that we learn about the truest law, the Deep Magic. He
                    > is on the path to or from Gevurah, Serverity, Judgement or
                    > Punishment, which is ruled by Mars and Scorpio.
                    >
                    > Susan the Gentle from the South is on the path of Temperence. An
                    > old fashioned way of saying that you are tempering something is to
                    > say you are gentling it. It is ruled by Sagaterious (so she gets
                    > the bow and arrow) and the letter Samech. Samech means protection,
                    > support, and Susan is the slightly fiery and occaisionally bossy
                    > little mother, providing just that, whether it is appropriate or
                    > not. It also means conscience and there is a strong mental aspect
                    > to Susan -- she likes to be smart, to do the common sense thing--
                    > part of her quest is to temper, gentle, this part of herself. Her
                    > path leads to or from Yesod, ruled by the Moon and Cancer. and
                    > signifying a womb, a foundation, generation and also, interestingly
                    > enough, redemption. Perhaps Lewis did have farther plans for Susan.
                    >
                    > Remember, Aslan is at the center of all this, the foci of the
                    > cross, the Spirit at the center of the 4 elements. I know some of
                    > you may think I'm a bit daft at this point, but I see this as
                    > pretty obvious. And for those who think I'm daft, thank you for
                    > reading thru such a long, detail-ridden message.
                    >
                    > What I'm wondering about now, the big question, is what this has
                    > to say about Lewis's knowledge of the Western Mystery Tradition.
                    > Obviously he knew all the Medieval and Renaissance material, that
                    > is a given. But it looks like, by attributing the virtues to the
                    > children that he did, that he was quite possibly aware of 19th and
                    > 20th century developments that tie together the Kabbala and Tarot.
                    > Was this through his earlier friendship with Williams? From his
                    > own study? Where is this coming from ... and why did the movie
                    > chose to reinforce it with extra imagery taken from the same
                    > framework? If I may say, this seems to open an interesting,
                    > previously unexplored door in Lewis studies.
                    >
                    > Should I rework this piece for the Mythlore movie review thing?
                    > Would it include enough movie stuff to qualify? I do feel there is
                    > something new here, thou I only stumbled upon it because of others'
                    > kind promptings. And this puzzles me, others must have noticed
                    > some of this stuff before now. Why has it never been written up?
                    > I don't remember Gareth Knight's book on the Inklings covering
                    > this. Since much of my first, now half-forgotten knowledge of
                    > Kabbalah and Tarot comes from an earlier book by him, why didn't
                    > Knight mention anything? Or did he, and I missed it?
                    >
                    > ---------
                    >
                    > Hey-- I finaly wrote a post without insulting anybody! I had not
                    > realized how much my style rests on snide humor and
                    > overexageration till I decided to gentle it. As Lewis says -- you
                    > never know quite how bad you are till you try to change for the
                    > better...
                    >
                    > But how does one keep the humor but loose the snide? .... hmmmm.
                    > Or show something for what it is without being unfair? Double hmmmm.
                    >
                    > Or not let lies thrown around by others get so far up one's
                    > capacious nose?
                    >
                    > Cai



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lezlie
                    approach, portrays Gollum as opposed to the way Le Guin, who has read ... In fact— Le Guin has stated (in several contexts) that she only read Jung *after*
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 26, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      approach, portrays Gollum as opposed to the way Le Guin, who has read
                      > her Jung, portray's Ged's Shadow.

                      In fact—
                      Le Guin has stated (in several contexts) that she only read Jung
                      *after* she had written "Wizard of Earthsea". This actually makes
                      sense, The Shadow is an archetype, one that Jung himself discussed as
                      being a part of human unconscious and culture and not a creation of
                      his own. His descriptions and analysis of The Shadow does depart for
                      the journey Ged makes in a couple of interesting ways (that I won't go
                      into further here…) Le Guin, rather, drew on tales of "filgia"
                      (Norway) and the "ka" of ancient Egypt to create her story. (It is
                      close enough to make for an interesting assignment for both freshman
                      writing and psychology students, BTW.) Here is kind of a neat eassy
                      about Earthsea: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/Mahy-Earthsea.html

                      To Le Guin's credit, she does discuss Jung & Ged in her later
                      interviews, saying that he did influence her later Earthsea books. I
                      am of the opinion that Taoism influences her rather more. I don't
                      have a direct quote from her about it, but I also suspect that the
                      Gilgamesh Epics and the Descent of Innana are intertwined throughout
                      Earthsea as well. I have a theory that some images are so deep in our
                      consciousness that they "show up" unbidden in all sorts of
                      placesincluding Narnia. (As Jung certainly predicted, as did, of
                      course, Eliade, Campbell, and others …) Perhaps the Coronation Scene
                      has this quality as well. (Remember that playing cards have two kings
                      and two queens, too – based upon Tarot, true, but it's a "story" that
                      is *there* in various forms in ancient myth as well. That the two
                      Kings and two Queens are *there* still suggests an image buried deeply
                      in the unconscious –) Or, maybe the scriptwriter was "playing" with
                      imagery of his own as well. (I haven't seen the film *yet*.) Would
                      make an interesting paper ... I am intrigued.

                      What never fails to amaze me is that so many English teachers won't
                      recommend Le Guin's books... too intellectual is the criticism I hear
                      most often. This puzzles me greatly, most of the children I have
                      given copies to love the books.

                      The good news is that I have (finally!) a line on publishing my
                      dissertation and soon, you can all read of my brilliant thoughts on
                      all of the above and more...of course, it is on UMI. (I actually could
                      use a little assistance in getting it into a book that everyone can
                      read -- any suggestions for resources?) Lezlie


                      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, John D Rateliff <sacnoth@e...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I don't think CSL knew enough about the tarot, except in a very
                      > superficial sense, but I suspect you could find some of the symbolic
                      > analogies you're looking for in THE DISCARDED IMAGE.
                      > Of course, symbols can be present without the author's being
                      > aware of them (Tolkien's "applicability"), so the quartet of Narnian
                      > kings and queens could be interpreted from the tarot, but I'd be wary
                      > of saying that Lewis meant them in those terms. There's a big
                      > difference between the way Tolkien, who disdained the Jungian
                      > approach, portrays Gollum as opposed to the way Le Guin, who has read
                      > her Jung, portray's Ged's Shadow.
                      > I'm pretty sure CSL was entirely uninformed about Kaballah.
                      > Likewise astrology.
                      > Thanks for sharing; it was an interesting 'take' on the pattern.
                      > --JDR
                      >
                      > On Dec 17, 2005, at 10:26 AM, Cai Cherie wrote:
                      >
                      > > I have been playing with the puzzle of the pattern to the
                      > > titles and attributes voiced as each of the Penvesie children is
                      > > crowned at the end of the LWW movie. It was easy to see that -a-
                      > > pattern was meant, but what exactly -the- pattern was and meant,
                      > > well, that was another matter. I was going in circles till someone
                      > > mentioned the 4 cardinal virtues and then everything seemed to fall
                      > > into place. Or a type of place. There is still room for doubt but
                      > > the beginnings of sense is appearing. This may have all been
                      > > bloody obvious to some but for others (like me) it may need some
                      > > explanation.
                      > >
                      > > The 4 cardinal virtues are commonly given as Fortitude/Stength,
                      > > Temperance, Prudence and Justice. Many feel this corresponds to 4
                      > > Tarot cards, the cards for Strength, Temperance, The Hermit and
                      > > Justice. Now, the Tarot does not just have to be used for just
                      > > fortune-telling. It can be used for its symbolic worth, for
                      > > meditation and for something called path-working. As such, in the
                      > > late 19th century, first a French magician, Elephas Levi, and then,
                      > > a bit later, a British one, Samuel Liddel McGregor Mathers, worked
                      > > out somewhat different correspondances tween a teaching of Jewish
                      > > mysticism, The Kabbalah and the Tarot cards, plus astrology and
                      > > the Hebrew letters (and more, but these are the ones I am most
                      > > familiar with.) Mathers, who was one of the 3 founders of the
                      > > Golden Dawn, basicially influenced the Brits who went on to do
                      > > further work with magical correspondances, most notably Fortune,
                      > > Crowley and Waite, and all who studied with them. Such as Charles
                      > > Williams, who, as we know,
                      > > belonged to a later Waitian order.
                      > >
                      > > So -- where is this longwinded, historical exposition going?
                      > > Well, to this, the 4 Tarot cards for the 4 virtues, when seen as
                      > > Kabbalahic correspondances form a sort of cross right at the center
                      > > of the Kaballah, around a Sefirot called Tiferet, which can mean
                      > > Beauty, Grace, Mediation and can be symbolized by the heart, a king
                      > > or a sacrifice. It is the Sefirot where, if one is doing Christian
                      > > Kabbalah, Jesus Christ is often conceptulized. Its color is golden
                      > > yellow. If one were to look at Narnia and analyze it by the
                      > > Kabbala, it is the obvious, really, really obvious place where one
                      > > would conceptualize Aslan (well, that and Chesed) ( and part of me
                      > > is kicking myself for not having thought of this -years- ago. Doh!)
                      > >
                      > > From this Sefirot , are 4 radiating arms or paths that can lead
                      > > to or away to other Sefirot. To the North is the path of the card
                      > > for Strength/Fortitude. Its is associated with Leo, with kingship.
                      > > The Hebrew letter is Tet -- Resolve, Truth, The Intention of
                      > > Sharing the Goodness of these (or leadership.) Peter is crowned as
                      > > from the North. This path leads or descends from the Sefirot of
                      > > Keter, the Crown, the Emperor over the Sea(Keter is associated with
                      > > Neptune.)
                      > >
                      > > Ahh-- you say, but Strength is not Magnificenece, thou close.
                      > > Perhaps, but Tet certianly is. The attibutes of Tet are exactly
                      > > those of Magnificience if one thinks about Magnificence not as our
                      > > contemporary, overused word for tacky overconsumption, but as
                      > > Lewis would have used it, thought it, felt it. As the personifying
                      > > attribute of Prince Arthur, King Arthur, the Once and Future
                      > > Really Big Mahoff, as proposed by Edmund Spenser in his letter
                      > > outlining his intention, his resolve, for the Fairy Queen. Anyone
                      > > who has been touched by Spenser will vibrate to that association.
                      > > (I need to go back and reread Lewis's book on Spenser.) BTW -- one
                      > > of the occult titles for this path is " The Secret Force of All
                      > > Spiritual Activity." (and, synthasizing symbology still further --
                      > > may The Force be with you too.)
                      > >
                      > > To the East is the path of The Hermit, Prudence, Wisdom, which is
                      > > considered Spiritual Movement. The Hebrew letter is Yod, the Will.
                      > > One of the titles for it is, " The Isolated Self in the World of
                      > > Illusions" -- (did I mention Homer's favorite expression -- "the
                      > > rosey fingers of the DOH" yet?) And Lucy certially knows what -
                      > > that- feels like. The astrological sign is Virgo, the virgin and
                      > > the card itself usually shows a cloaked figure in the lonely wild
                      > > with a ... lantern. To have been so curious, to have explored so
                      > > bravely, to have been so open to the new, takes valience. Mental
                      > > valience, mental fight. If Lewis was a knight of the intellect,
                      > > Lucy was his valient virgin by a lantern in the waste. Her path
                      > > leads from or to Chesed, which is Mercy, Clemency, Unconditional
                      > > Love and it is associated with Jupiter and expansion.
                      > >
                      > > From the West is Edmund the Just. His path is the trump called
                      > > Justice. Its sign is Libra, its letter is Lamed, --learning, law--
                      > > and Edmund certianly learns about justice and law. It is because of
                      > > his actions that we learn about the truest law, the Deep Magic. He
                      > > is on the path to or from Gevurah, Serverity, Judgement or
                      > > Punishment, which is ruled by Mars and Scorpio.
                      > >
                      > > Susan the Gentle from the South is on the path of Temperence. An
                      > > old fashioned way of saying that you are tempering something is to
                      > > say you are gentling it. It is ruled by Sagaterious (so she gets
                      > > the bow and arrow) and the letter Samech. Samech means protection,
                      > > support, and Susan is the slightly fiery and occaisionally bossy
                      > > little mother, providing just that, whether it is appropriate or
                      > > not. It also means conscience and there is a strong mental aspect
                      > > to Susan -- she likes to be smart, to do the common sense thing--
                      > > part of her quest is to temper, gentle, this part of herself. Her
                      > > path leads to or from Yesod, ruled by the Moon and Cancer. and
                      > > signifying a womb, a foundation, generation and also, interestingly
                      > > enough, redemption. Perhaps Lewis did have farther plans for Susan.
                      > >
                      > > Remember, Aslan is at the center of all this, the foci of the
                      > > cross, the Spirit at the center of the 4 elements. I know some of
                      > > you may think I'm a bit daft at this point, but I see this as
                      > > pretty obvious. And for those who think I'm daft, thank you for
                      > > reading thru such a long, detail-ridden message.
                      > >
                      > > What I'm wondering about now, the big question, is what this has
                      > > to say about Lewis's knowledge of the Western Mystery Tradition.
                      > > Obviously he knew all the Medieval and Renaissance material, that
                      > > is a given. But it looks like, by attributing the virtues to the
                      > > children that he did, that he was quite possibly aware of 19th and
                      > > 20th century developments that tie together the Kabbala and Tarot.
                      > > Was this through his earlier friendship with Williams? From his
                      > > own study? Where is this coming from ... and why did the movie
                      > > chose to reinforce it with extra imagery taken from the same
                      > > framework? If I may say, this seems to open an interesting,
                      > > previously unexplored door in Lewis studies.
                      > >
                      > > Should I rework this piece for the Mythlore movie review thing?
                      > > Would it include enough movie stuff to qualify? I do feel there is
                      > > something new here, thou I only stumbled upon it because of others'
                      > > kind promptings. And this puzzles me, others must have noticed
                      > > some of this stuff before now. Why has it never been written up?
                      > > I don't remember Gareth Knight's book on the Inklings covering
                      > > this. Since much of my first, now half-forgotten knowledge of
                      > > Kabbalah and Tarot comes from an earlier book by him, why didn't
                      > > Knight mention anything? Or did he, and I missed it?
                      > >
                      > > ---------
                      > >
                      > > Hey-- I finaly wrote a post without insulting anybody! I had not
                      > > realized how much my style rests on snide humor and
                      > > overexageration till I decided to gentle it. As Lewis says -- you
                      > > never know quite how bad you are till you try to change for the
                      > > better...
                      > >
                      > > But how does one keep the humor but loose the snide? .... hmmmm.
                      > > Or show something for what it is without being unfair? Double hmmmm.
                      > >
                      > > Or not let lies thrown around by others get so far up one's
                      > > capacious nose?
                      > >
                      > > Cai
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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