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RE: [mythsoc] count the errors

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  • John D Rateliff
    Actually, of the three main biographies on CSL, I d recommend starting with the Green & Hooper. That s the authorized biography, and it does the best job of
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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      Actually, of the three main biographies on CSL, I'd recommend starting with the Green & Hooper. That's the authorized biography, and it does the best job of discussing the main outlines of his life, works, and career. Although now more than thirty years old, it's still not been superceded as a whole. Then if you'd like to read more I'd read the Sayer next, since it's a warm portrait by a friend, as much memoir as biography; it'll convey why Lewis's friends thought so highly of him. Its main shortcoming is that it's too uncritical of its subject, which isn't that much of a flaw in a biography. Then I'd read the Wilson, who's deliberately iconoclastic and wants to establish that, all in all, CSL while talents was also a rather strange man.
      Or, if you want a shorter take on things, Carpenter's THE INKLINGS is as much a biography of CSL as the group.
      Enjoy!
      --JDR

      P.S.: "Never wrote another word" is White's garbled version of a comment by Carpenter that, after his mauling by Anscombe, CSL stopped writing straightforward apologetics for many years and, when he resumed, his religious books were much more personal in tone (e.g., MIRACLES, THE PROBLEM OF PAIN, MERE XIANITY vs. REFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS and LETTERS TO MALCOLM: CHIEFLY ON PRAYER).


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jay Hershberger <hershjay@...>
      Sent: Nov 7, 2005 10:27 AM
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [mythsoc] count the errors

      Thanks for the information, David. And to all who responded. I think I
      will start with Sayer's book on Lewis.

      Cheers,

      Jay Hershberger
      Moorhead, MN
    • Jay Hershberger
      Thanks, John. I look forward to reading them all. Cheers, Jay Hershberger Moorhead, MN ... From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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        Thanks, John. I look forward to reading them all.

        Cheers,

        Jay Hershberger
        Moorhead, MN

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of John D Rateliff
        Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:46 PM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com; mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [mythsoc] count the errors

        Actually, of the three main biographies on CSL, I'd recommend starting
        with the Green & Hooper. That's the authorized biography, and it does
        the best job of discussing the main outlines of his life, works, and
        career. Although now more than thirty years old, it's still not been
        superceded as a whole. Then if you'd like to read more I'd read the
        Sayer next, since it's a warm portrait by a friend, as much memoir as
        biography; it'll convey why Lewis's friends thought so highly of him.
        Its main shortcoming is that it's too uncritical of its subject, which
        isn't that much of a flaw in a biography. Then I'd read the Wilson,
        who's deliberately iconoclastic and wants to establish that, all in all,
        CSL while talents was also a rather strange man.
        Or, if you want a shorter take on things, Carpenter's THE INKLINGS is
        as much a biography of CSL as the group.
        Enjoy!
        --JDR

        P.S.: "Never wrote another word" is White's garbled version of a comment
        by Carpenter that, after his mauling by Anscombe, CSL stopped writing
        straightforward apologetics for many years and, when he resumed, his
        religious books were much more personal in tone (e.g., MIRACLES, THE
        PROBLEM OF PAIN, MERE XIANITY vs. REFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS and LETTERS
        TO MALCOLM: CHIEFLY ON PRAYER).


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jay Hershberger <hershjay@...>
        Sent: Nov 7, 2005 10:27 AM
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [mythsoc] count the errors

        Thanks for the information, David. And to all who responded. I think I
        will start with Sayer's book on Lewis.

        Cheers,

        Jay Hershberger
        Moorhead, MN



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      • David Bratman
        ... I d start with Sayer for exactly the same reason. G&H is a valuable source, but much too dry for casual reading. Also, G&H was recently massively
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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          At 10:46 AM 11/7/2005 -0800, John D. Rateliff wrote:
          >Actually, of the three main biographies on CSL, I'd recommend starting with
          >the Green & Hooper. That's the authorized biography, and it does the best
          >job of discussing the main outlines of his life, works, and career. Although
          >now more than thirty years old, it's still not been superceded as a whole.
          >Then if you'd like to read more I'd read the Sayer next, since it's a warm
          >portrait by a friend, as much memoir as biography; it'll convey why Lewis's
          >friends thought so highly of him.

          I'd start with Sayer for exactly the same reason. G&H is a valuable
          source, but much too dry for casual reading. Also, G&H was recently
          massively rewritten and extended by H, and I haven't studied all the
          changes; nor are all editions that say "revised" actually the rewritten
          edition.

          >P.S.: "Never wrote another word" is White's garbled version of a comment by
          >Carpenter that, after his mauling by Anscombe, CSL stopped writing
          >straightforward apologetics for many years and, when he resumed, his
          >religious books were much more personal in tone (e.g., MIRACLES, THE PROBLEM
          >OF PAIN, MERE XIANITY vs. REFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS and LETTERS TO MALCOLM:
          >CHIEFLY ON PRAYER).

          Thank you; that clarifies the point better than I did.

          David Bratman
        • Mike Foster
          I agree with David. Who better to tell the story of Lewis life than one who was taught then mentored and then befriended by him? Begin with Sayer. Mike ...
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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            I agree with David. Who better to tell the story of Lewis' life than
            one who was taught then mentored and then befriended by him? Begin with
            Sayer.

            Mike

            David Bratman wrote:

            >At 10:46 AM 11/7/2005 -0800, John D. Rateliff wrote:
            >
            >
            >>Actually, of the three main biographies on CSL, I'd recommend starting with
            >>the Green & Hooper. That's the authorized biography, and it does the best
            >>job of discussing the main outlines of his life, works, and career. Although
            >>now more than thirty years old, it's still not been superceded as a whole.
            >>Then if you'd like to read more I'd read the Sayer next, since it's a warm
            >>portrait by a friend, as much memoir as biography; it'll convey why Lewis's
            >>friends thought so highly of him.
            >>
            >>
            >
            >I'd start with Sayer for exactly the same reason. G&H is a valuable
            >source, but much too dry for casual reading. Also, G&H was recently
            >massively rewritten and extended by H, and I haven't studied all the
            >changes; nor are all editions that say "revised" actually the rewritten
            >edition.
            >
            >
            >
            >>P.S.: "Never wrote another word" is White's garbled version of a comment by
            >>Carpenter that, after his mauling by Anscombe, CSL stopped writing
            >>straightforward apologetics for many years and, when he resumed, his
            >>religious books were much more personal in tone (e.g., MIRACLES, THE PROBLEM
            >>OF PAIN, MERE XIANITY vs. REFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS and LETTERS TO MALCOLM:
            >>CHIEFLY ON PRAYER).
            >>
            >>
            >
            >Thank you; that clarifies the point better than I did.
            >
            >David Bratman
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike Foster
            I finally read the White blurb since the chat about it had been so lively. I stopped counting at 5. Mike
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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              I finally read the White blurb since the chat about it had been so lively.

              I stopped counting at 5.

              Mike

              David Bratman wrote:

              >Michael White, author of the most error-ridden book on Tolkien ever
              >published, is now similarly hacking his way around C.S. Lewis.
              >
              ><http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1859141,00.html>
              >
              >David Bratman
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Stolzi
              Doug Gresham, who spoke at the opening banquet for PAST WATCHFUL DRAGONS, sold copies of his new (rather slight) book JACK S LIFE. I was aggravated to have
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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                Doug Gresham, who spoke at the opening banquet for PAST WATCHFUL DRAGONS,
                sold copies of his new (rather slight) book JACK'S LIFE. I was aggravated
                to have bought it bec it is obviously by
                its style - and overtly in so many words, in the conclusion - a bio of Lewis
                for children, yet it was marketed at this conference without ever a word or
                hint to that effect.

                Well, at least it was cheap; and it isn't too =bad=.

                I did think he was rather riding a hobby horse in an excess number of
                paragraphs about How Awful War Is. Sure, it is awful, and the two wars
                surely had a large impact on CSL as well as his friends and family. But I
                don't think Lewis himself would have wanted to dwell on the subject that
                much, - stiff upper lip and all that. And it comes ill from a man like Doug
                who as far as I know has never been in any war. In fact, this morning in
                LETTERS v. 2, I was just reading some wartime snarky comments from Jack
                about high-minded intellectual c.o.'s who have never, he says, been known to
                be troubled by their consciences about anything before.

                It would be great to influence all the children of the world forever against
                war. If it could be ALL the children of the world. I don't see that
                situation today.

                Diamond Proudbrook
              • Mike Foster
                I concur with Diamond s assessment. The book needed a better copy editing job--typos as soon as p. 4--and danced over the difficult bits, but so did Colin
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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                  I concur with Diamond's assessment. The book needed a better copy
                  editing job--typos as soon as p. 4--and danced over the difficult bits,
                  but so did Colin D.'s book on CSL & JRRT.

                  More later. A salmon calls.

                  Stolzi wrote:

                  > Doug Gresham, who spoke at the opening banquet for PAST WATCHFUL DRAGONS,
                  >sold copies of his new (rather slight) book JACK'S LIFE. I was aggravated
                  >to have bought it bec it is obviously by
                  >its style - and overtly in so many words, in the conclusion - a bio of Lewis
                  >for children, yet it was marketed at this conference without ever a word or
                  >hint to that effect.
                  >
                  >Well, at least it was cheap; and it isn't too =bad=.
                  >
                  >I did think he was rather riding a hobby horse in an excess number of
                  >paragraphs about How Awful War Is. Sure, it is awful, and the two wars
                  >surely had a large impact on CSL as well as his friends and family. But I
                  >don't think Lewis himself would have wanted to dwell on the subject that
                  >much, - stiff upper lip and all that. And it comes ill from a man like Doug
                  >who as far as I know has never been in any war. In fact, this morning in
                  >LETTERS v. 2, I was just reading some wartime snarky comments from Jack
                  >about high-minded intellectual c.o.'s who have never, he says, been known to
                  >be troubled by their consciences about anything before.
                  >
                  >It would be great to influence all the children of the world forever against
                  >war. If it could be ALL the children of the world. I don't see that
                  >situation today.
                  >
                  >Diamond Proudbrook
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Hugh Davis
                  I had great hopes that _Jack s Life_ would feature more stories like the one Doug Gresham shared in the Q&A at Past Watchful Dragons (about the archer), but,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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                    I had great hopes that _Jack's Life_ would feature more stories like the one
                    Doug Gresham shared in the Q&A at Past Watchful Dragons (about the archer),
                    but, alas, the anecdotes are less salacious.

                    Hugh


                    >From: "Stolzi" <Stolzi@...>
                    >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [mythsoc] count the errors
                    >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:23:18 -0600
                    >
                    > Doug Gresham, who spoke at the opening banquet for PAST WATCHFUL DRAGONS,
                    >sold copies of his new (rather slight) book JACK'S LIFE. I was aggravated
                    >to have bought it bec it is obviously by
                    >its style - and overtly in so many words, in the conclusion - a bio of
                    >Lewis
                    >for children, yet it was marketed at this conference without ever a word or
                    >hint to that effect.
                    >
                    >Well, at least it was cheap; and it isn't too =bad=.
                    >
                    >I did think he was rather riding a hobby horse in an excess number of
                    >paragraphs about How Awful War Is. Sure, it is awful, and the two wars
                    >surely had a large impact on CSL as well as his friends and family. But I
                    >don't think Lewis himself would have wanted to dwell on the subject that
                    >much, - stiff upper lip and all that. And it comes ill from a man like
                    >Doug
                    >who as far as I know has never been in any war. In fact, this morning in
                    >LETTERS v. 2, I was just reading some wartime snarky comments from Jack
                    >about high-minded intellectual c.o.'s who have never, he says, been known
                    >to
                    >be troubled by their consciences about anything before.
                    >
                    >It would be great to influence all the children of the world forever
                    >against
                    >war. If it could be ALL the children of the world. I don't see that
                    >situation today.
                    >
                    >Diamond Proudbrook
                    >
                    >
                  • Jay Hershberger
                    Thanks, Mike. Cheers, Jay Hershberger Moorhead, MN ... From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Foster Sent: Monday,
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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                      Thanks, Mike.

                      Cheers,

                      Jay Hershberger
                      Moorhead, MN

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mythsoc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Mike Foster
                      Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:52 PM
                      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] count the errors

                      I agree with David. Who better to tell the story of Lewis' life than
                      one who was taught then mentored and then befriended by him? Begin with

                      Sayer.

                      Mike

                      David Bratman wrote:

                      >At 10:46 AM 11/7/2005 -0800, John D. Rateliff wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >>Actually, of the three main biographies on CSL, I'd recommend starting
                      with
                      >>the Green & Hooper. That's the authorized biography, and it does the
                      best
                      >>job of discussing the main outlines of his life, works, and career.
                      Although
                      >>now more than thirty years old, it's still not been superceded as a
                      whole.
                      >>Then if you'd like to read more I'd read the Sayer next, since it's a
                      warm
                      >>portrait by a friend, as much memoir as biography; it'll convey why
                      Lewis's
                      >>friends thought so highly of him.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >I'd start with Sayer for exactly the same reason. G&H is a valuable
                      >source, but much too dry for casual reading. Also, G&H was recently
                      >massively rewritten and extended by H, and I haven't studied all the
                      >changes; nor are all editions that say "revised" actually the rewritten
                      >edition.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>P.S.: "Never wrote another word" is White's garbled version of a
                      comment by
                      >>Carpenter that, after his mauling by Anscombe, CSL stopped writing
                      >>straightforward apologetics for many years and, when he resumed, his
                      >>religious books were much more personal in tone (e.g., MIRACLES, THE
                      PROBLEM
                      >>OF PAIN, MERE XIANITY vs. REFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS and LETTERS TO
                      MALCOLM:
                      >>CHIEFLY ON PRAYER).
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >Thank you; that clarifies the point better than I did.
                      >
                      >David Bratman
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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