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Re: [mythsoc] Re:"When Tolkien got precious with Lewis"

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  • Mike Foster
    Peter, I don t know if they are reading this but David Bratman & Richard C. West cd. certainly speak to Williams. But it does seem to ring true. There s more
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 26, 2005
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      Peter,
      I don't know if they are reading this but David Bratman & Richard C.
      West cd. certainly speak to Williams. But it does seem to ring true.
      There's more to it than that. George Sayer is the best published so far
      on this. When will Diana P-G's book be published, Lynn?

      Mike

      Peter Goselin wrote:

      >I have been lurking on this list for a while now, but the topic just
      >happened to coincide with what I was reading anyway . . . so even though
      >I am here at my desk at work and my reading material is at home on the
      >table I'll rush in with my two cents.
      >
      >I notice that in Tolkien's Letters he refers in very loving (though not
      >always uncritical) terms to Lewis up until the 1950's, and then the
      >references diminish and stop until Lewis's death. At that point there
      >are several letters responding to inquiries from family and friends
      >about Lewis. Tolkien makes reference to Lewis not telling him of his
      >marriage and acknowledges that they had become distant from each other.
      >Even so, it seems clear that he regarded Lewis as a friend and
      >intimate. Interestingly, there is no mention of his disapproval of
      >Lewis' marriage. Though there are certainly lengthy letters in which
      >Tolkien expounds on his rather conservative views on Catholic doctrine,
      >I can't think of any instance in his letters where he criticized someone
      >because they had failed to live up to those views.
      >
      >There did seem to be a hint in one letter that Charles Williams had
      >somehow "come between" Tolkien and Lewis. Again, it seemed to be more
      >indicative of the two of them being not in particularly close
      >communication, rather than suggesting a genuine split, but I wonder if
      >anyone more well read has more insight.
      >
      >Peter Goselin
      >
      >
      >Cai Cherie wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >>Gee-- do you think Lewis and Tolkein were two full-blooded,
      >>strong-minded induviduals who stimulated and nurtured each other
      >>because they were alike ... but also different? Close, passionate
      >>friendships that make a difference in one's life are rarely (never?)
      >>founded on total agreement on everything.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Some folks are unwise enough to try and turn Tolkein and Lewis into
      >>plaster saints. And then others follow, thinking it amazing to reveal
      >>that no, they -weren't- plaster saints after all. Well whip me with a
      >>wet noodle. They were muddled-up men making the best of an often rum
      >>situation. If you can't love and/or admire them for that, well, then
      >>you're even more muddled up than they were.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Cai
      >>
      >>
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    • Carl F. Hostetter
      ... They CAN?! Wow! Do they perform a séance, or use a ouija board, or what? ;)
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 26, 2005
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        On Sep 26, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Mike Foster wrote:

        > I don't know if they are reading this but David Bratman & Richard
        > C. West cd. certainly speak to Williams.

        They CAN?! Wow! Do they perform a séance, or use a ouija board, or what?

        ;)
      • Mike Foster
        Gee, dunno about Richard and DB can speak for hisself but from what he s said I assumed it was a mix of ouija and seance and the table kinda moving up and
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 26, 2005
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          Gee, dunno about Richard and DB can speak for
          hisself but from what he's said I assumed it was a mix of ouija and
          seance and the table kinda moving up and rising into the air...

          =-O

          Carl F. Hostetter wrote:

          >On Sep 26, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Mike Foster wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>I don't know if they are reading this but David Bratman & Richard
          >>C. West cd. certainly speak to Williams.
          >>
          >>
          >
          >They CAN?! Wow! Do they perform a séance, or use a ouija board, or what?
          >
          >;)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
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          >


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        • WendellWag@aol.com
          In a message dated 9/26/2005 12:33:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pdgoselin@lapm.org writes: There did seem to be a hint in one letter that Charles Williams
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 26, 2005
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            In a message dated 9/26/2005 12:33:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            pdgoselin@... writes:

            There did seem to be a hint in one letter that Charles Williams had
            somehow "come between" Tolkien and Lewis.


            One of the interesting papers at Tolkien 2005 in Birmingham (which included
            Mythcon this year) was by Eric Rauscher. He looked at the claim that Tolkien
            and Williams didn't get along that well and that they didn't have much in
            common. The claim also usually says that the only reason they ever hung out
            together was because they both knew Lewis. Eric argued that this was wrong.
            It's clear if you look at letters and diaries from the time that the two knew
            each other (up till Williams's death in 1945) that this isn't true. A couple
            of decades later, when Tolkien was interviewed in the late 1960's and early
            1970's, he sometimes spoke as if he never got along with Williams that well
            and didn't have much in common with him, but that appears to be him re-writing
            history. Tolkien just didn't like interviewers trying to prove that the
            Inklings were responsible for everything in his books.

            Wendell Wagner


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          • Mike Foster
            Thanks, Wendell, for sharing this observation of Eriv s paperwh, I agree was one of 43 or so highlights at Aston. Mike ... It was the witchcraft interest of
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 26, 2005
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              Thanks, Wendell, for sharing this observation of Eriv's paperwh, I agree
              was one of 43 or so highlights at Aston.

              Mike

              WendellWag@... wrote:

              >
              >In a message dated 9/26/2005 12:33:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              >pdgoselin@... writes:
              >
              >There did seem to be a hint in one letter that Charles Williams had
              >somehow "come between" Tolkien and Lewis.
              >
              >
              >
              It was
              the witchcraft interest of CW, aina?

              >One of the interesting papers at Tolkien 2005 in Birmingham (which included
              >Mythcon this year) was by Eric Rauscher. He looked at the claim that Tolkien
              >and Williams didn't get along that well and that they didn't have much in
              >common. The claim also usually says that the only reason they ever hung out
              >together was because they both knew Lewis. Eric argued that this was wrong.
              >It's clear if you look at letters and diaries from the time that the two knew
              >each other (up till Williams's death in 1945) that this isn't true. A couple
              >of decades later, when Tolkien was interviewed in the late 1960's and early
              >1970's, he sometimes spoke as if he never got along with Williams that well
              >and didn't have much in common with him, but that appears to be him re-writing
              >history. Tolkien just didn't like interviewers trying to prove that the
              >Inklings were responsible for everything in his books.
              >
              Again, it was the best paper Eric's done in my earshot, and kudos to him.

              Mike

              >
              >Wendell Wagner
              >
              >
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              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
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