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Re: [mythsoc] Snape & Dumbledore in HP6 (SPOILERS!)

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  • Pauline J. Alama
    ... refrains from ... passionately ... horrible ... undercover? ... interesting ... when ... even kill ... perfect ... I too was expecting Dumbledore to die.
    Message 1 of 71 , Aug 13, 2005
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      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "dianejoy@e..." <dianejoy@e...>
      wrote:
      > SPOILER ALERT FOLLOWS!
      > SPOILER ALERT FOLLOWS!
      > SPOILER ALERT FOLLOWS!
      >
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      In repsonse to Alexei & Diane -- who are interesting as usual:

      > Alexei sez:
      >
      > >Snape's behaviour in the final crisis is also unusual: he
      refrains from
      > >harming Harry when he has ample opportunity to do so, and his
      passionately
      > >expressed concern is that Harry not call him a coward. Is his
      horrible
      > deed >in fact more heroic than anyone guesses?
      >
      >
      >
      > Does this mean that Snape could still be a good guy, working
      undercover?
      > This is what I've been hoping from the beginning. Thought it
      interesting
      > that there were only four scenes between Harry and Snape in HP VI,
      when
      > Snape would have had a perfect opportunity to needle Harry, or
      even kill
      > him at leisure. I wasn't too surprised at Dumbledore's; it makes
      perfect
      > mythic sense. Dumbledore is HP's substitute father. ---djb
      >
      I too was expecting Dumbledore to die. It fits the pattern of the
      previous books: in the first book, Dumbledore seems all-powerful
      (like the parent of a young child), and Harry speculates that
      Dumbledore could have stepped in at any time & saved the day but he
      let Harry have a go at Voldemort. Howeverk, in each succeeding book
      Harry has less of a sense that Dumbledore is in control & totally
      able to protect him. Following logically from that, it was time for
      Harry to lose this fatherly protector & have to step into the role
      of adult hero.

      And I too suspect that Snape is still an undercover good guy, though
      I'm not sure how this works. He can't still be a double agent unless
      someone else was in on the secret -- an agent has to report to
      SOMEBODY, and that means somebody has to believe him. If any of the
      Order do, they haven't revealed it. However, I wonder whether there
      was a magical benefit to be derived from Dumbledore's death, which
      he considered worth the sacrifice of his life -- e.g., has his
      death, like Lily's, conferred some sort of magical benefit on Harry?
      It would fit the series' theme of acceptance of death for a greater
      good. As somebody, I forget who, wrote in Mythlore, Voldemort is
      the "thief of death" [Fr.], trying to cheat death at all cost,
      whereas the good characters recognize that some things are worth
      dying for.

      It occurred to me that there could be a real reason Dumbledore could
      have been sure of Snape's allegiance. Snape could have taken an
      Unbreakable Vow to give his first loyalty to the Order of the
      Phoenix, or to Dumbledore personally.

      Pauline J. Alama
      geocities.com/paulinejalama.paulinealama.html
      THE EYE OF NIGHT
      (Bantam Spectra 2002)

      > Original Message:
      > -----------------
      > From: alexeik@a...
      > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 17:08:51 EDT
      > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: Re: [mythsoc] O.W.L.'s in Harry Potter (spoiler at
      end)
      >
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 8/2/5 6:16:12 PM, David Bratman wrote:
      >
      > <<HARRY POTTER SPOILER FOLLOWS!
      > HARRY POTTER SPOILER FOLLOWS!
      > HARRY POTTER SPOILER FOLLOWS!
      > HARRY POTTER SPOILER FOLLOWS!
      > HARRY POTTER SPOILER FOLLOWS!
      >
      >
      > >Nor do I think that the birdbath of doom scene futile.
      >
      > Correct me if I misunderstood the plot here. But I thought
      Dumbledore
      > drank the Birdbath of Doom so that he could get at one of
      Voldemort's
      > little soul-boxes (I forget what they're called). But then it
      turned out
      > that this soul-box was a fake. The effort didn't accomplish
      anything, and
      > it seems to have had some connection (unclear to me) with getting
      > Dumbledore killed. The word in my dictionary to describe this
      is "futile".
      > >>
      >
      > That's what Harry *thinks* the mission to the Birdbath of Doom was
      about.
      > Although they don't find the talisman that they were purportedly
      looking
      > for,
      > what they do find there opens up a new mystery, and I think it
      entirely
      > possible
      > that Dumbledore knows what it is but doesn't tell Harry for
      reasons of his
      > own
      > -- just as he insists that Harry obey him unquestioningly without
      > understanding the reason for apparently harmful actions, and
      finally
      > paralyses Harry to
      > prevent him from intervening to stop him from getting killed.
      Snape's
      > behaviour
      > in the final crisis is also unusual: he refrains from harming
      Harry when he
      > has ample opportunity to do so, and his passionately expressed
      concern is
      > that
      > Harry not call him a coward. Is his horrible deed in fact more
      heroic than
      > anyone guesses?
      > To me this suggests that everything has actually gone exactly as
      Dumbledore
      > planned, but we won't know why until HP7.
      > Alexei
      >
      >
      >
      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Larry Swain
      ONe tidbit I didn t see mentioned in the various takes on the theory: at the end Harry rather considers getting Snape as a possible by-product, but isn t
      Message 71 of 71 , Aug 14, 2005
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        ONe tidbit I didn't see mentioned in the various takes on the theory: at the end Harry rather considers "getting Snape" as a possible by-product, but isn't overly concerned with Snape or Malfoy. One could counter that he is focused on Voldemort, but I'm not sure I buy that as just putting Snape out of mind.

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