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RE: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund

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  • Hugh Davis
    They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding Edmund s blood. It s debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he seems
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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      They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding
      Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he
      seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may not be at
      the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan knows the
      Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could expect it
      from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford suggests, given
      how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against Susan and
      tell Edmund afterall.

      I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
      letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked about it,
      or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the crucifixion.

      Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I was a
      voice alone in the wilderness!

      Hugh

      >From: "dianejoy@..." <dianejoy@...>
      >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
      >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:10:09 -0400
      >
      >I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
      >and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
      >there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
      >I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
      >
      >Original Message:
      >-----------------
      >From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
      >Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
      >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
      >
      >
      >Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
      >to
      >tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
      >Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
      >crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
      >dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
      >knowing what happened.
      >
      >Any suggestions?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >Hugh
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Walkermonk@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dianejoy@earthlink.net writes: I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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        In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
        dianejoy@... writes:
        I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
        and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
        there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
        I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
        -

        I know Edmund is aware of *something* because of his conversation with the
        undragoned Eustace in "Dawn Treader."

        Grace


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Heather Gemmen
        Hello, It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about Aslan s sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person doesn t have the
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 7, 2005
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          Hello,

          It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
          Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
          doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
          tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
          in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
          be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
          would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
          recognizes it.

          Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
          hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
          is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
          events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
          dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
          the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
          pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.

          Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
          this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
          don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
          read it as a stand-alone.

          Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
          That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
          the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
          accommodate.


          Regards,

          Heather Gemmen
          B.A., Calvin College 1990
          English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University



          On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

          > Message: 4
          > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
          > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
          > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
          >
          > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
          > demanding
          > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
          > happen--he
          > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
          > not be at
          > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
          > knows the
          > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
          > expect it
          > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
          > suggests, given
          > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
          > Susan and
          > tell Edmund afterall.
          >
          > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
          > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
          > about it,
          > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
          > crucifixion.
          >
          > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
          > was a
          > voice alone in the wilderness!
          >
          > Hugh



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hugh Davis
          Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I think there s a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely becauae he
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 10, 2005
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            Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I
            think there's a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely
            becauae he does feel alone.

            While I agree Edmund is an Adam figure in many ways, he is less-and-less
            self-centered as the novel progresses, and I am not sure he couldn't grasp
            sacrifice if told about it. When reminded how fearful he is when the witch
            is calling for his blood, he should understand the importance of what Aslan
            has done. I can see it would be difficult, but I don't know that telling him
            lacks a purpose.

            Hugh

            >From: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
            >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            >CC: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
            >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Query about Edmund
            >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:51:07 -0400
            >
            >Hello,
            >
            >It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
            >Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
            >doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
            >tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
            >in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
            >be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
            >would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
            >recognizes it.
            >
            >Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
            >hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
            >is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
            >events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
            >dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
            >the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
            >pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.
            >
            >Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
            >this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
            >don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
            >read it as a stand-alone.
            >
            >Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
            >That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
            >the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
            >accommodate.
            >
            >
            >Regards,
            >
            >Heather Gemmen
            >B.A., Calvin College 1990
            >English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University
            >
            >
            >
            >On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            >
            > > Message: 4
            > > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
            > > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
            > > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
            > >
            > > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
            > > demanding
            > > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
            > > happen--he
            > > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
            > > not be at
            > > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
            > > knows the
            > > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
            > > expect it
            > > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
            > > suggests, given
            > > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
            > > Susan and
            > > tell Edmund afterall.
            > >
            > > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
            > > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
            > > about it,
            > > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
            > > crucifixion.
            > >
            > > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
            > > was a
            > > voice alone in the wilderness!
            > >
            > > Hugh
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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