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Query about Edmund

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  • Hugh Davis
    Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to tell Edmund about Aslan s sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if Aslan s
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 1, 2005
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      Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to
      tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
      Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
      crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
      dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
      knowing what happened.

      Any suggestions?

      Thanks,
      Hugh
    • David Bratman
      A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of Honor.)
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 2, 2005
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        A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
        the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of
        Honor.) Conferences I've attended with keynote speakers usually have them
        give general, introductory addresses and leave the technical wizardry to
        the papers sessions. I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities group
        who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
        would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.

        DB


        At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
        >
        >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
        >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
        >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
        >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
        >said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth
        >at the medieval archives there...
        >
        >Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
        >(tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers
        >on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
        >
        >Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
        >send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
      • Berni Phillips
        Maybe David Emerson? ... From: David Bratman ... group
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 2, 2005
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          Maybe David Emerson?

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "David Bratman" <dbratman@...>


          > A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
          > the top scholar present. (I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities
          group
          > who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
          > would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.
          >
          >
          > At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
          > >
          > >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
          > >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
          > >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
          > >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker?
        • dianejoy@earthlink.net
          I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here, and keep Edmund s conversion largely off stage. I seem to recall that there s a
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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            I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
            and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
            there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
            I may be remembering wrong. ---djb

            Original Message:
            -----------------
            From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
            Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund


            Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
            to
            tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
            Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
            crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
            dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
            knowing what happened.

            Any suggestions?

            Thanks,
            Hugh




            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
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          • Hugh Davis
            They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding Edmund s blood. It s debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he seems
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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              They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding
              Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he
              seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may not be at
              the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan knows the
              Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could expect it
              from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford suggests, given
              how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against Susan and
              tell Edmund afterall.

              I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
              letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked about it,
              or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the crucifixion.

              Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I was a
              voice alone in the wilderness!

              Hugh

              >From: "dianejoy@..." <dianejoy@...>
              >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
              >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:10:09 -0400
              >
              >I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
              >and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
              >there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
              >I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
              >
              >Original Message:
              >-----------------
              >From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
              >Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
              >
              >
              >Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
              >to
              >tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
              >Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
              >crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
              >dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
              >knowing what happened.
              >
              >Any suggestions?
              >
              >Thanks,
              >Hugh
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >--------------------------------------------------------------------
              >mail2web - Check your email from the web at
              >http://mail2web.com/ .
              >
              >
            • Walkermonk@aol.com
              In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dianejoy@earthlink.net writes: I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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                In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
                dianejoy@... writes:
                I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                -

                I know Edmund is aware of *something* because of his conversation with the
                undragoned Eustace in "Dawn Treader."

                Grace


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Heather Gemmen
                Hello, It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about Aslan s sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person doesn t have the
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 7, 2005
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                  Hello,

                  It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                  Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                  doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                  tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                  in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                  be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                  would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                  recognizes it.

                  Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                  hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                  is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                  events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                  dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                  the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                  pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.

                  Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                  this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                  don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                  read it as a stand-alone.

                  Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                  That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                  the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                  accommodate.


                  Regards,

                  Heather Gemmen
                  B.A., Calvin College 1990
                  English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University



                  On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                  > Message: 4
                  > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                  > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                  > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                  >
                  > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                  > demanding
                  > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                  > happen--he
                  > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                  > not be at
                  > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                  > knows the
                  > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                  > expect it
                  > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                  > suggests, given
                  > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                  > Susan and
                  > tell Edmund afterall.
                  >
                  > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                  > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                  > about it,
                  > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                  > crucifixion.
                  >
                  > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                  > was a
                  > voice alone in the wilderness!
                  >
                  > Hugh



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Hugh Davis
                  Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I think there s a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely becauae he
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 10, 2005
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                    Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I
                    think there's a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely
                    becauae he does feel alone.

                    While I agree Edmund is an Adam figure in many ways, he is less-and-less
                    self-centered as the novel progresses, and I am not sure he couldn't grasp
                    sacrifice if told about it. When reminded how fearful he is when the witch
                    is calling for his blood, he should understand the importance of what Aslan
                    has done. I can see it would be difficult, but I don't know that telling him
                    lacks a purpose.

                    Hugh

                    >From: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                    >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    >CC: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                    >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Query about Edmund
                    >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:51:07 -0400
                    >
                    >Hello,
                    >
                    >It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                    >Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                    >doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                    >tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                    >in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                    >be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                    >would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                    >recognizes it.
                    >
                    >Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                    >hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                    >is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                    >events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                    >dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                    >the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                    >pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.
                    >
                    >Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                    >this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                    >don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                    >read it as a stand-alone.
                    >
                    >Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                    >That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                    >the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                    >accommodate.
                    >
                    >
                    >Regards,
                    >
                    >Heather Gemmen
                    >B.A., Calvin College 1990
                    >English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                    >
                    > > Message: 4
                    > > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                    > > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                    > > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                    > >
                    > > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                    > > demanding
                    > > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                    > > happen--he
                    > > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                    > > not be at
                    > > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                    > > knows the
                    > > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                    > > expect it
                    > > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                    > > suggests, given
                    > > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                    > > Susan and
                    > > tell Edmund afterall.
                    > >
                    > > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                    > > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                    > > about it,
                    > > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                    > > crucifixion.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                    > > was a
                    > > voice alone in the wilderness!
                    > >
                    > > Hugh
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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