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Re: [mythsoc] CS Lewis and the "Committee revising Ancient and Modern [Hymns]"

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  • David Bratman
    It is possible that Tolkien was mistaken about what committee Lewis was actually a member of. However, there s no notes on this subject to the published
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 26, 2005
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      It is possible that Tolkien was mistaken about what committee Lewis was
      actually a member of.

      However, there's no notes on this subject to the published letter, and it's
      not Vincent's job as translator to do original research. He merely needs
      to know what Tolkien's phrase "Committee revising Ancient and Modern" means
      grammatically so that he may translate it accurately, and I think we've
      answered that one.

      DB
    • Danielle Karpouzian
      I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 29, 2005
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        I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth at the medieval archives there...

        Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be (tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers on film as well as Tolkien's literature...

        Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...



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      • lezlie1@znet.com
        Hello-- It s a long shot, but Prof. Alexander Laszlo at the California Institute of Integral Studies has been working on a some research concerning Tolkien and
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 29, 2005
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          Hello-- It's a long shot, but Prof. Alexander Laszlo at the California
          Institute of Integral Studies has been working on a some research concerning
          Tolkien and sustainable ecology. His email is: "Alexander Laszlo"
          <alexander@...>

          If you open the conference to other grad. students and recent grads. & send
          a call for papers, I will post it on the board for my school & send it out
          and about.

          BTW, I just subbed to this group and have been "lurking" a little, I am a
          writer, poet and independent scholar. Glad to have found you. Yours, Lezlie

          Quoting Danielle Karpouzian <tolkienwasamarxist@...>:
          > I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
          > for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
          > (getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
          > make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
          > said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in
          > Duluth at the medieval archives there...
          >
          >
          >
          > Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
          > (tentatively) "Applicability for Today?" and we will be having
          > panels/papers on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
          >
          >
          >
          > Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
          > send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
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          > Yahoo! Sports
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          --
          ____________________________________________________________________________

          "...it concerns three men who are about to be executed. The prison governor
          calls them to his office, and explains that each will be granted a last
          request. The first one confesses that he has led a sinful life, and would
          like to see a priest. The governor says he thinks he can arrange that. And
          the second man? The second man explains that he is a professor of
          cybernetics. His last request is to deliver a final and definitive answer to
          the question: what is cybernetics? The governor accedes to this request
          also. And the third man? Well, he is a doctoral student of the professor --
          his request is to be executed second."Joke Related by Stafford Beer
          October 2001
        • WendellWag@aol.com
          In a message dated 6/29/2005 11:00:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tolkienwasamarxist@yahoo.com writes: While we are still in the early planning stages
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 30, 2005
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            In a message dated 6/29/2005 11:00:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            tolkienwasamarxist@... writes:

            While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP together) and
            solidifying dates, I was wondering who would make a good (CHEAP) keynote
            speaker?


            I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since Tom
            Shippey turned you down because he couldn't do this trip just for this conference,
            I presume that this means that you won't be able to afford someone really
            well known or really far away and hence expensive. How about Mike Foster, who
            teaches at Illinois Central College? How about Verlyn Flieger, who teaches at
            the University of Maryland, College Park? How about Charles Huttar, who
            teaches at Hope College in Michigan (although he's more of a general Inklings
            scholar than a Tolkien one)? How about Douglas Anderson, although I don't know
            where he lives? How about Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond, who live in
            Williamstown, Massachusetts? Come one, people, help me out here. Give us some
            more names, and don't be afraid to nominate yourselves.

            Wendell Wagner


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:37:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, WendellWag@aol.com writes: I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 30, 2005
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              In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:37:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              WendellWag@... writes:

              I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since Tom
              Shippey turned you down because he couldn't do this trip just for this
              conference,
              I presume that this means that you won't be able to afford someone really
              well known or really far away and hence expensive. How about Mike Foster,
              who
              teaches at Illinois Central College? How about Verlyn Flieger, who teaches
              at
              the University of Maryland, College Park? How about Charles Huttar, who
              teaches at Hope College in Michigan (although he's more of a general
              Inklings
              scholar than a Tolkien one)? How about Douglas Anderson, although I don't
              know
              where he lives? How about Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond, who live in
              Williamstown, Massachusetts? Come one, people, help me out here. Give us
              some more names, and don't be afraid to nominate yourselves.



              Am I the only one who's willing to be helpful about this guy's request?
              Here are some more suggestions: How about Jane Chance, who teaches at Rice
              University in Texas? How about Randel Helms, who teaches at Arizona State
              University (although he may no longer be interested in Tolkien)? How about Jared
              Lobdell, who teaches at Central Pennsylvania Business School (although he's a
              general Inklings person rather than Tolkien specifically)? Were it not for
              the fact that it was stated that a cheap keynote speaker was needed, I would
              have suggested John Garth, but a trans-Atlantic trip may be too expensive for
              the conference. Come on, some of you know the field better than I do and can
              suggest speakers better than I can.

              Wendell Wagner


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stolzi
              I suggest Janet B Croft! Diamond Proudbrook
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 1, 2005
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                I suggest Janet B Croft!

                Diamond Proudbrook
              • Hugh Davis
                Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to tell Edmund about Aslan s sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if Aslan s
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 1, 2005
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                  Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to
                  tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                  Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                  crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                  dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                  knowing what happened.

                  Any suggestions?

                  Thanks,
                  Hugh
                • David Bratman
                  A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of Honor.)
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 2, 2005
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                    A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
                    the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of
                    Honor.) Conferences I've attended with keynote speakers usually have them
                    give general, introductory addresses and leave the technical wizardry to
                    the papers sessions. I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities group
                    who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
                    would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.

                    DB


                    At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
                    >
                    >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
                    >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
                    >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
                    >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
                    >said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth
                    >at the medieval archives there...
                    >
                    >Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
                    >(tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers
                    >on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
                    >
                    >Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
                    >send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
                  • Berni Phillips
                    Maybe David Emerson? ... From: David Bratman ... group
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 2, 2005
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                      Maybe David Emerson?

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "David Bratman" <dbratman@...>


                      > A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
                      > the top scholar present. (I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities
                      group
                      > who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
                      > would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.
                      >
                      >
                      > At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
                      > >
                      > >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
                      > >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
                      > >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
                      > >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker?
                    • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                      I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here, and keep Edmund s conversion largely off stage. I seem to recall that there s a
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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                        I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                        and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                        there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                        I may be remembering wrong. ---djb

                        Original Message:
                        -----------------
                        From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
                        Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund


                        Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
                        to
                        tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                        Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                        crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                        dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                        knowing what happened.

                        Any suggestions?

                        Thanks,
                        Hugh




                        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                        Yahoo! Groups Links







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                      • Hugh Davis
                        They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding Edmund s blood. It s debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he seems
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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                          They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding
                          Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he
                          seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may not be at
                          the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan knows the
                          Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could expect it
                          from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford suggests, given
                          how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against Susan and
                          tell Edmund afterall.

                          I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                          letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked about it,
                          or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the crucifixion.

                          Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I was a
                          voice alone in the wilderness!

                          Hugh

                          >From: "dianejoy@..." <dianejoy@...>
                          >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
                          >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:10:09 -0400
                          >
                          >I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                          >and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                          >there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                          >I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                          >
                          >Original Message:
                          >-----------------
                          >From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
                          >Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
                          >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
                          >
                          >
                          >Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
                          >to
                          >tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                          >Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                          >crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                          >dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                          >knowing what happened.
                          >
                          >Any suggestions?
                          >
                          >Thanks,
                          >Hugh
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >--------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                          >http://mail2web.com/ .
                          >
                          >
                        • Walkermonk@aol.com
                          In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dianejoy@earthlink.net writes: I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
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                            In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
                            dianejoy@... writes:
                            I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                            and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                            there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                            I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                            -

                            I know Edmund is aware of *something* because of his conversation with the
                            undragoned Eustace in "Dawn Treader."

                            Grace


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Heather Gemmen
                            Hello, It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about Aslan s sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person doesn t have the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 7, 2005
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                              Hello,

                              It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                              Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                              doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                              tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                              in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                              be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                              would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                              recognizes it.

                              Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                              hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                              is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                              events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                              dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                              the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                              pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.

                              Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                              this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                              don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                              read it as a stand-alone.

                              Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                              That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                              the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                              accommodate.


                              Regards,

                              Heather Gemmen
                              B.A., Calvin College 1990
                              English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University



                              On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                              > Message: 4
                              > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                              > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                              > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                              >
                              > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                              > demanding
                              > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                              > happen--he
                              > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                              > not be at
                              > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                              > knows the
                              > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                              > expect it
                              > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                              > suggests, given
                              > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                              > Susan and
                              > tell Edmund afterall.
                              >
                              > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                              > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                              > about it,
                              > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                              > crucifixion.
                              >
                              > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                              > was a
                              > voice alone in the wilderness!
                              >
                              > Hugh



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Hugh Davis
                              Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I think there s a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely becauae he
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 10, 2005
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                                Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I
                                think there's a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely
                                becauae he does feel alone.

                                While I agree Edmund is an Adam figure in many ways, he is less-and-less
                                self-centered as the novel progresses, and I am not sure he couldn't grasp
                                sacrifice if told about it. When reminded how fearful he is when the witch
                                is calling for his blood, he should understand the importance of what Aslan
                                has done. I can see it would be difficult, but I don't know that telling him
                                lacks a purpose.

                                Hugh

                                >From: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                                >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                >CC: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                                >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Query about Edmund
                                >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:51:07 -0400
                                >
                                >Hello,
                                >
                                >It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                                >Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                                >doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                                >tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                                >in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                                >be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                                >would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                                >recognizes it.
                                >
                                >Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                                >hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                                >is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                                >events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                                >dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                                >the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                                >pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.
                                >
                                >Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                                >this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                                >don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                                >read it as a stand-alone.
                                >
                                >Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                                >That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                                >the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                                >accommodate.
                                >
                                >
                                >Regards,
                                >
                                >Heather Gemmen
                                >B.A., Calvin College 1990
                                >English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                >
                                > > Message: 4
                                > > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                                > > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                                > > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                                > >
                                > > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                                > > demanding
                                > > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                                > > happen--he
                                > > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                                > > not be at
                                > > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                                > > knows the
                                > > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                                > > expect it
                                > > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                                > > suggests, given
                                > > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                                > > Susan and
                                > > tell Edmund afterall.
                                > >
                                > > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                                > > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                                > > about it,
                                > > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                                > > crucifixion.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                                > > was a
                                > > voice alone in the wilderness!
                                > >
                                > > Hugh
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
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