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Re: [mythsoc] CS Lewis and the "Committee revising Ancient and Modern [Hymns]"

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  • Stolzi
    You re welcome, Vincent! I still keep thinking that CSL would not have joined any Committee like that. Not with his views on hymns, and not during the War
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 26, 2005
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      You're welcome, Vincent!

      I still keep thinking that CSL would not have joined any Committee like
      that. Not with his views on hymns, and not during the War when he was busy
      as possible with so many other things...

      MS
    • David Bratman
      It is possible that Tolkien was mistaken about what committee Lewis was actually a member of. However, there s no notes on this subject to the published
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 26, 2005
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        It is possible that Tolkien was mistaken about what committee Lewis was
        actually a member of.

        However, there's no notes on this subject to the published letter, and it's
        not Vincent's job as translator to do original research. He merely needs
        to know what Tolkien's phrase "Committee revising Ancient and Modern" means
        grammatically so that he may translate it accurately, and I think we've
        answered that one.

        DB
      • Danielle Karpouzian
        I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 29, 2005
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          I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth at the medieval archives there...

          Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be (tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers on film as well as Tolkien's literature...

          Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...



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        • lezlie1@znet.com
          Hello-- It s a long shot, but Prof. Alexander Laszlo at the California Institute of Integral Studies has been working on a some research concerning Tolkien and
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 29, 2005
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            Hello-- It's a long shot, but Prof. Alexander Laszlo at the California
            Institute of Integral Studies has been working on a some research concerning
            Tolkien and sustainable ecology. His email is: "Alexander Laszlo"
            <alexander@...>

            If you open the conference to other grad. students and recent grads. & send
            a call for papers, I will post it on the board for my school & send it out
            and about.

            BTW, I just subbed to this group and have been "lurking" a little, I am a
            writer, poet and independent scholar. Glad to have found you. Yours, Lezlie

            Quoting Danielle Karpouzian <tolkienwasamarxist@...>:
            > I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
            > for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
            > (getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
            > make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
            > said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in
            > Duluth at the medieval archives there...
            >
            >
            >
            > Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
            > (tentatively) "Applicability for Today?" and we will be having
            > panels/papers on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
            >
            >
            >
            > Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
            > send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            --
            ____________________________________________________________________________

            "...it concerns three men who are about to be executed. The prison governor
            calls them to his office, and explains that each will be granted a last
            request. The first one confesses that he has led a sinful life, and would
            like to see a priest. The governor says he thinks he can arrange that. And
            the second man? The second man explains that he is a professor of
            cybernetics. His last request is to deliver a final and definitive answer to
            the question: what is cybernetics? The governor accedes to this request
            also. And the third man? Well, he is a doctoral student of the professor --
            his request is to be executed second."Joke Related by Stafford Beer
            October 2001
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/29/2005 11:00:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tolkienwasamarxist@yahoo.com writes: While we are still in the early planning stages
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 30, 2005
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              In a message dated 6/29/2005 11:00:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              tolkienwasamarxist@... writes:

              While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP together) and
              solidifying dates, I was wondering who would make a good (CHEAP) keynote
              speaker?


              I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since Tom
              Shippey turned you down because he couldn't do this trip just for this conference,
              I presume that this means that you won't be able to afford someone really
              well known or really far away and hence expensive. How about Mike Foster, who
              teaches at Illinois Central College? How about Verlyn Flieger, who teaches at
              the University of Maryland, College Park? How about Charles Huttar, who
              teaches at Hope College in Michigan (although he's more of a general Inklings
              scholar than a Tolkien one)? How about Douglas Anderson, although I don't know
              where he lives? How about Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond, who live in
              Williamstown, Massachusetts? Come one, people, help me out here. Give us some
              more names, and don't be afraid to nominate yourselves.

              Wendell Wagner


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:37:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, WendellWag@aol.com writes: I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 30, 2005
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                In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:37:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                WendellWag@... writes:

                I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since Tom
                Shippey turned you down because he couldn't do this trip just for this
                conference,
                I presume that this means that you won't be able to afford someone really
                well known or really far away and hence expensive. How about Mike Foster,
                who
                teaches at Illinois Central College? How about Verlyn Flieger, who teaches
                at
                the University of Maryland, College Park? How about Charles Huttar, who
                teaches at Hope College in Michigan (although he's more of a general
                Inklings
                scholar than a Tolkien one)? How about Douglas Anderson, although I don't
                know
                where he lives? How about Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond, who live in
                Williamstown, Massachusetts? Come one, people, help me out here. Give us
                some more names, and don't be afraid to nominate yourselves.



                Am I the only one who's willing to be helpful about this guy's request?
                Here are some more suggestions: How about Jane Chance, who teaches at Rice
                University in Texas? How about Randel Helms, who teaches at Arizona State
                University (although he may no longer be interested in Tolkien)? How about Jared
                Lobdell, who teaches at Central Pennsylvania Business School (although he's a
                general Inklings person rather than Tolkien specifically)? Were it not for
                the fact that it was stated that a cheap keynote speaker was needed, I would
                have suggested John Garth, but a trans-Atlantic trip may be too expensive for
                the conference. Come on, some of you know the field better than I do and can
                suggest speakers better than I can.

                Wendell Wagner


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stolzi
                I suggest Janet B Croft! Diamond Proudbrook
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 1 6:21 AM
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                  I suggest Janet B Croft!

                  Diamond Proudbrook
                • Hugh Davis
                  Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to tell Edmund about Aslan s sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if Aslan s
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 1 2:56 PM
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                    Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to
                    tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                    Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                    crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                    dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                    knowing what happened.

                    Any suggestions?

                    Thanks,
                    Hugh
                  • David Bratman
                    A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of Honor.)
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 2 2:05 AM
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                      A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
                      the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of
                      Honor.) Conferences I've attended with keynote speakers usually have them
                      give general, introductory addresses and leave the technical wizardry to
                      the papers sessions. I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities group
                      who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
                      would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.

                      DB


                      At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
                      >
                      >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
                      >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
                      >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
                      >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
                      >said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth
                      >at the medieval archives there...
                      >
                      >Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
                      >(tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers
                      >on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
                      >
                      >Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
                      >send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
                    • Berni Phillips
                      Maybe David Emerson? ... From: David Bratman ... group
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 2 3:19 PM
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                        Maybe David Emerson?

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "David Bratman" <dbratman@...>


                        > A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
                        > the top scholar present. (I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities
                        group
                        > who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
                        > would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.
                        >
                        >
                        > At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
                        > >
                        > >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
                        > >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
                        > >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
                        > >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker?
                      • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                        I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here, and keep Edmund s conversion largely off stage. I seem to recall that there s a
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 4 8:10 AM
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                          I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                          and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                          there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                          I may be remembering wrong. ---djb

                          Original Message:
                          -----------------
                          From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
                          Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
                          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund


                          Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
                          to
                          tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                          Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                          crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                          dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                          knowing what happened.

                          Any suggestions?

                          Thanks,
                          Hugh




                          The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                          Yahoo! Groups Links







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                        • Hugh Davis
                          They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding Edmund s blood. It s debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he seems
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 4 8:57 AM
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                            They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding
                            Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he
                            seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may not be at
                            the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan knows the
                            Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could expect it
                            from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford suggests, given
                            how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against Susan and
                            tell Edmund afterall.

                            I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                            letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked about it,
                            or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the crucifixion.

                            Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I was a
                            voice alone in the wilderness!

                            Hugh

                            >From: "dianejoy@..." <dianejoy@...>
                            >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
                            >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:10:09 -0400
                            >
                            >I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                            >and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                            >there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                            >I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                            >
                            >Original Message:
                            >-----------------
                            >From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
                            >Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
                            >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
                            >
                            >
                            >Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
                            >to
                            >tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                            >Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                            >crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                            >dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                            >knowing what happened.
                            >
                            >Any suggestions?
                            >
                            >Thanks,
                            >Hugh
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >--------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                            >http://mail2web.com/ .
                            >
                            >
                          • Walkermonk@aol.com
                            In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dianejoy@earthlink.net writes: I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 4 9:39 AM
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                              In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
                              dianejoy@... writes:
                              I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                              and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                              there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                              I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                              -

                              I know Edmund is aware of *something* because of his conversation with the
                              undragoned Eustace in "Dawn Treader."

                              Grace


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Heather Gemmen
                              Hello, It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about Aslan s sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person doesn t have the
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 7 11:51 AM
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                                Hello,

                                It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                                Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                                doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                                tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                                in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                                be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                                would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                                recognizes it.

                                Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                                hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                                is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                                events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                                dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                                the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                                pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.

                                Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                                this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                                don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                                read it as a stand-alone.

                                Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                                That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                                the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                                accommodate.


                                Regards,

                                Heather Gemmen
                                B.A., Calvin College 1990
                                English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University



                                On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                > Message: 4
                                > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                                > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                                > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                                >
                                > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                                > demanding
                                > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                                > happen--he
                                > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                                > not be at
                                > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                                > knows the
                                > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                                > expect it
                                > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                                > suggests, given
                                > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                                > Susan and
                                > tell Edmund afterall.
                                >
                                > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                                > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                                > about it,
                                > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                                > crucifixion.
                                >
                                > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                                > was a
                                > voice alone in the wilderness!
                                >
                                > Hugh



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Hugh Davis
                                Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I think there s a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely becauae he
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 10 6:27 PM
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                                  Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I
                                  think there's a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely
                                  becauae he does feel alone.

                                  While I agree Edmund is an Adam figure in many ways, he is less-and-less
                                  self-centered as the novel progresses, and I am not sure he couldn't grasp
                                  sacrifice if told about it. When reminded how fearful he is when the witch
                                  is calling for his blood, he should understand the importance of what Aslan
                                  has done. I can see it would be difficult, but I don't know that telling him
                                  lacks a purpose.

                                  Hugh

                                  >From: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                                  >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                  >CC: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                                  >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Query about Edmund
                                  >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:51:07 -0400
                                  >
                                  >Hello,
                                  >
                                  >It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                                  >Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                                  >doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                                  >tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                                  >in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                                  >be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                                  >would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                                  >recognizes it.
                                  >
                                  >Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                                  >hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                                  >is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                                  >events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                                  >dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                                  >the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                                  >pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.
                                  >
                                  >Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                                  >this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                                  >don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                                  >read it as a stand-alone.
                                  >
                                  >Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                                  >That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                                  >the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                                  >accommodate.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Regards,
                                  >
                                  >Heather Gemmen
                                  >B.A., Calvin College 1990
                                  >English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Message: 4
                                  > > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                                  > > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                                  > > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                                  > >
                                  > > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                                  > > demanding
                                  > > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                                  > > happen--he
                                  > > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                                  > > not be at
                                  > > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                                  > > knows the
                                  > > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                                  > > expect it
                                  > > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                                  > > suggests, given
                                  > > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                                  > > Susan and
                                  > > tell Edmund afterall.
                                  > >
                                  > > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                                  > > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                                  > > about it,
                                  > > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                                  > > crucifixion.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                                  > > was a
                                  > > voice alone in the wilderness!
                                  > >
                                  > > Hugh
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
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