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Re: [mythsoc] CS Lewis and the "Committee revising Ancient and Modern [Hymns]"

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  • Vincent Ferré
    Thank you _very_ much, David and Diamond... Vincent [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 26, 2005
      Thank you _very_ much, David and Diamond...

      Vincent

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stolzi
      You re welcome, Vincent! I still keep thinking that CSL would not have joined any Committee like that. Not with his views on hymns, and not during the War
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 26, 2005
        You're welcome, Vincent!

        I still keep thinking that CSL would not have joined any Committee like
        that. Not with his views on hymns, and not during the War when he was busy
        as possible with so many other things...

        MS
      • David Bratman
        It is possible that Tolkien was mistaken about what committee Lewis was actually a member of. However, there s no notes on this subject to the published
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 26, 2005
          It is possible that Tolkien was mistaken about what committee Lewis was
          actually a member of.

          However, there's no notes on this subject to the published letter, and it's
          not Vincent's job as translator to do original research. He merely needs
          to know what Tolkien's phrase "Committee revising Ancient and Modern" means
          grammatically so that he may translate it accurately, and I think we've
          answered that one.

          DB
        • Danielle Karpouzian
          I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 29, 2005
            I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth at the medieval archives there...

            Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be (tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers on film as well as Tolkien's literature...

            Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...



            ---------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • lezlie1@znet.com
            Hello-- It s a long shot, but Prof. Alexander Laszlo at the California Institute of Integral Studies has been working on a some research concerning Tolkien and
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 29, 2005
              Hello-- It's a long shot, but Prof. Alexander Laszlo at the California
              Institute of Integral Studies has been working on a some research concerning
              Tolkien and sustainable ecology. His email is: "Alexander Laszlo"
              <alexander@...>

              If you open the conference to other grad. students and recent grads. & send
              a call for papers, I will post it on the board for my school & send it out
              and about.

              BTW, I just subbed to this group and have been "lurking" a little, I am a
              writer, poet and independent scholar. Glad to have found you. Yours, Lezlie

              Quoting Danielle Karpouzian <tolkienwasamarxist@...>:
              > I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
              > for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
              > (getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
              > make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
              > said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in
              > Duluth at the medieval archives there...
              >
              >
              >
              > Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
              > (tentatively) "Applicability for Today?" and we will be having
              > panels/papers on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
              >
              >
              >
              > Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
              > send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
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              > Yahoo! Sports
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              --
              ____________________________________________________________________________

              "...it concerns three men who are about to be executed. The prison governor
              calls them to his office, and explains that each will be granted a last
              request. The first one confesses that he has led a sinful life, and would
              like to see a priest. The governor says he thinks he can arrange that. And
              the second man? The second man explains that he is a professor of
              cybernetics. His last request is to deliver a final and definitive answer to
              the question: what is cybernetics? The governor accedes to this request
              also. And the third man? Well, he is a doctoral student of the professor --
              his request is to be executed second."Joke Related by Stafford Beer
              October 2001
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/29/2005 11:00:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tolkienwasamarxist@yahoo.com writes: While we are still in the early planning stages
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 30, 2005
                In a message dated 6/29/2005 11:00:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                tolkienwasamarxist@... writes:

                While we are still in the early planning stages (getting a CFP together) and
                solidifying dates, I was wondering who would make a good (CHEAP) keynote
                speaker?


                I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since Tom
                Shippey turned you down because he couldn't do this trip just for this conference,
                I presume that this means that you won't be able to afford someone really
                well known or really far away and hence expensive. How about Mike Foster, who
                teaches at Illinois Central College? How about Verlyn Flieger, who teaches at
                the University of Maryland, College Park? How about Charles Huttar, who
                teaches at Hope College in Michigan (although he's more of a general Inklings
                scholar than a Tolkien one)? How about Douglas Anderson, although I don't know
                where he lives? How about Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond, who live in
                Williamstown, Massachusetts? Come one, people, help me out here. Give us some
                more names, and don't be afraid to nominate yourselves.

                Wendell Wagner


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • WendellWag@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:37:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, WendellWag@aol.com writes: I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 30, 2005
                  In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:37:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  WendellWag@... writes:

                  I guess people here are too modest to nominate themselves. Since Tom
                  Shippey turned you down because he couldn't do this trip just for this
                  conference,
                  I presume that this means that you won't be able to afford someone really
                  well known or really far away and hence expensive. How about Mike Foster,
                  who
                  teaches at Illinois Central College? How about Verlyn Flieger, who teaches
                  at
                  the University of Maryland, College Park? How about Charles Huttar, who
                  teaches at Hope College in Michigan (although he's more of a general
                  Inklings
                  scholar than a Tolkien one)? How about Douglas Anderson, although I don't
                  know
                  where he lives? How about Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond, who live in
                  Williamstown, Massachusetts? Come one, people, help me out here. Give us
                  some more names, and don't be afraid to nominate yourselves.



                  Am I the only one who's willing to be helpful about this guy's request?
                  Here are some more suggestions: How about Jane Chance, who teaches at Rice
                  University in Texas? How about Randel Helms, who teaches at Arizona State
                  University (although he may no longer be interested in Tolkien)? How about Jared
                  Lobdell, who teaches at Central Pennsylvania Business School (although he's a
                  general Inklings person rather than Tolkien specifically)? Were it not for
                  the fact that it was stated that a cheap keynote speaker was needed, I would
                  have suggested John Garth, but a trans-Atlantic trip may be too expensive for
                  the conference. Come on, some of you know the field better than I do and can
                  suggest speakers better than I can.

                  Wendell Wagner


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stolzi
                  I suggest Janet B Croft! Diamond Proudbrook
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 1, 2005
                    I suggest Janet B Croft!

                    Diamond Proudbrook
                  • Hugh Davis
                    Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to tell Edmund about Aslan s sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if Aslan s
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 1, 2005
                      Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary to
                      tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                      Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                      crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                      dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                      knowing what happened.

                      Any suggestions?

                      Thanks,
                      Hugh
                    • David Bratman
                      A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of Honor.)
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 2, 2005
                        A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
                        the top scholar present. (A keynote speaker is not the same as a Guest of
                        Honor.) Conferences I've attended with keynote speakers usually have them
                        give general, introductory addresses and leave the technical wizardry to
                        the papers sessions. I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities group
                        who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
                        would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.

                        DB


                        At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
                        >
                        >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
                        >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
                        >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
                        >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker? I have emailed Tom Shippey, and he
                        >said that the drive would be too far unless he was going to be up in Duluth
                        >at the medieval archives there...
                        >
                        >Does anyone have any other suggestions? Our focus is going to be
                        >(tentitavely) "Applicibility for Today?" and we will be having panels/papers
                        >on film as well as Tolkien's literature...
                        >
                        >Also, if anyone is interested in submitting, I will be more than happy to
                        >send out a CFP when we have gotten that far...
                      • Berni Phillips
                        Maybe David Emerson? ... From: David Bratman ... group
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 2, 2005
                          Maybe David Emerson?

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "David Bratman" <dbratman@...>


                          > A keynote speaker is one who sets the theme, and need not necessarily be
                          > the top scholar present. (I imagine there are people in our Twin Cities
                          group
                          > who'd be very good keynote speakers, who'd have good things to say that
                          > would be scholarly too, and who'd be quite easy to get.
                          >
                          >
                          > At 07:11 AM 6/29/2005 -0700, Danielle Karpouzian wrote:
                          > >
                          > >I am in grad school in Mankato, MN and am organizing a Tolkien conference
                          > >for Spring Semester. While we are still in the early planning stages
                          > >(getting a CFP together) and solidifying dates, I was wondering who would
                          > >make a good (CHEAP) keynote speaker?
                        • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                          I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here, and keep Edmund s conversion largely off stage. I seem to recall that there s a
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
                            I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                            and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                            there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                            I may be remembering wrong. ---djb

                            Original Message:
                            -----------------
                            From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
                            Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
                            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund


                            Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
                            to
                            tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                            Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                            crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                            dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                            knowing what happened.

                            Any suggestions?

                            Thanks,
                            Hugh




                            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                            Yahoo! Groups Links







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                          • Hugh Davis
                            They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding Edmund s blood. It s debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he seems
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
                              They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and demanding
                              Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things happen--he
                              seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may not be at
                              the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan knows the
                              Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could expect it
                              from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford suggests, given
                              how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against Susan and
                              tell Edmund afterall.

                              I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                              letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked about it,
                              or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the crucifixion.

                              Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I was a
                              voice alone in the wilderness!

                              Hugh

                              >From: "dianejoy@..." <dianejoy@...>
                              >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
                              >Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:10:09 -0400
                              >
                              >I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                              >and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                              >there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                              >I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                              >
                              >Original Message:
                              >-----------------
                              >From: Hugh Davis HughHDavis@...
                              >Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:56:57 -0400
                              >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: [mythsoc] Query about Edmund
                              >
                              >
                              >Can anyone help me with a question from LWW? Why is it deemed unnecessary
                              >to
                              >tell Edmund about Aslan's sacrifice at the stone table? It seems that, if
                              >Aslan's death and resurrection show the Narnian equivalent to Christ's
                              >crucifixion and resurrection in our world, then Edmund, as the human Aslan
                              >dies in the stead of, would be best able to react to that sacrifice by
                              >knowing what happened.
                              >
                              >Any suggestions?
                              >
                              >Thanks,
                              >Hugh
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                              >http://mail2web.com/ .
                              >
                              >
                            • Walkermonk@aol.com
                              In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dianejoy@earthlink.net writes: I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 4, 2005
                                In a message dated 7/4/2005 10:17:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
                                dianejoy@... writes:
                                I have a feeling that CSL wanted to simplify the theological issues here,
                                and keep Edmund's "conversion" largely off stage. I seem to recall that
                                there's a place where Lewis said that Aslan and Edmund had a long talk, but
                                I may be remembering wrong. ---djb
                                -

                                I know Edmund is aware of *something* because of his conversation with the
                                undragoned Eustace in "Dawn Treader."

                                Grace


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Heather Gemmen
                                Hello, It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about Aslan s sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person doesn t have the
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 7, 2005
                                  Hello,

                                  It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                                  Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                                  doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                                  tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                                  in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                                  be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                                  would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                                  recognizes it.

                                  Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                                  hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                                  is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                                  events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                                  dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                                  the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                                  pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.

                                  Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                                  this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                                  don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                                  read it as a stand-alone.

                                  Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                                  That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                                  the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                                  accommodate.


                                  Regards,

                                  Heather Gemmen
                                  B.A., Calvin College 1990
                                  English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University



                                  On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                  > Message: 4
                                  > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                                  > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                                  > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                                  >
                                  > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                                  > demanding
                                  > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                                  > happen--he
                                  > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                                  > not be at
                                  > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                                  > knows the
                                  > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                                  > expect it
                                  > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                                  > suggests, given
                                  > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                                  > Susan and
                                  > tell Edmund afterall.
                                  >
                                  > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                                  > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                                  > about it,
                                  > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                                  > crucifixion.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                                  > was a
                                  > voice alone in the wilderness!
                                  >
                                  > Hugh



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Hugh Davis
                                  Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I think there s a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely becauae he
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 10, 2005
                                    Thank you for your response. I agree with your interpretation of Aslan. I
                                    think there's a measure of fear and uncertainty together there, precisely
                                    becauae he does feel alone.

                                    While I agree Edmund is an Adam figure in many ways, he is less-and-less
                                    self-centered as the novel progresses, and I am not sure he couldn't grasp
                                    sacrifice if told about it. When reminded how fearful he is when the witch
                                    is calling for his blood, he should understand the importance of what Aslan
                                    has done. I can see it would be difficult, but I don't know that telling him
                                    lacks a purpose.

                                    Hugh

                                    >From: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                                    >Reply-To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                                    >CC: Heather Gemmen <hgemmen@...>
                                    >Subject: [mythsoc] Re: Query about Edmund
                                    >Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:51:07 -0400
                                    >
                                    >Hello,
                                    >
                                    >It seems to me that Edmund is an Adam figure who will learn about
                                    >Aslan's sacrifice through the course of time; Edmund as a person
                                    >doesn't have the intellectual ability to grasp "sacrifice" if someone
                                    >tells him about it, as he is completely self-centered at this stage
                                    >in his development. As an Adam figure should be. Therefore, it would
                                    >be pointless for Edmund to be told about Aslan's sacrifice, as Edmund
                                    >would discount it out of hand; it's just his personality, and Aslan
                                    >recognizes it.
                                    >
                                    >Aslan's uncertitude seems also fear, as Jesus was fearful in the
                                    >hours leading up to his own death. Even to a devout Christian, doubt
                                    >is a part of belief. I interpret Aslan's apprehension of future
                                    >events to be similar to Christ's, who knew what would transpire but
                                    >dreaded it nonetheless. In our world Jesus was abandoned by God on
                                    >the cross, and when I imagined Aslan's body lying cold on the stone I
                                    >pictured him as completely separate from his faraway father as well.
                                    >
                                    >Aslan seems to go through the "Mount of Olives meditations" before
                                    >this scene. I re-read some of these scenes a number of times and I
                                    >don't think I could make sense of them if I isolated one scene and
                                    >read it as a stand-alone.
                                    >
                                    >Sorry this contribution to the Edmund discussion came a little late.
                                    >That's a problem with mobile computing--you can bring your laptop to
                                    >the cottage but you can't find a 45-mile-long Ethernet cable to
                                    >accommodate.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Regards,
                                    >
                                    >Heather Gemmen
                                    >B.A., Calvin College 1990
                                    >English Masters of Arts Program, Grand Valley State University
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >On Jul 5, 2005, at 6:58 AM, mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Message: 4
                                    > > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:57:41 -0400
                                    > > From: "Hugh Davis" <HughHDavis@...>
                                    > > Subject: RE: Query about Edmund
                                    > >
                                    > > They do have a long talk, prior to the White Witch coming and
                                    > > demanding
                                    > > Edmund's blood. It's debatable how much Aslan knows before things
                                    > > happen--he
                                    > > seems unsure heading to the stone table and has told Peter he may
                                    > > not be at
                                    > > the battle the next day--so it's left unclear whether or not Aslan
                                    > > knows the
                                    > > Witch will come and make this claim (although presumably he could
                                    > > expect it
                                    > > from one like her). In his _Companion to Narnia_, Paul Ford
                                    > > suggests, given
                                    > > how Edmund acts as he matures, that Lucy might win out against
                                    > > Susan and
                                    > > tell Edmund afterall.
                                    > >
                                    > > I was curious if those more familiar with Lewis' personal writings and
                                    > > letters knew if he had ever commented on this scene, or been asked
                                    > > about it,
                                    > > or if it could relate to his own views of the sacrifice in the
                                    > > crucifixion.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks, Diane, by the way, for the reply--I was starting to fear I
                                    > > was a
                                    > > voice alone in the wilderness!
                                    > >
                                    > > Hugh
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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