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Re: [mythsoc] Re: Less Forbidden Romance Than Promised

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  • Stolzi
    ... From: Croft, Janet B. On the other hand, Wormtongue s non-canonical scene with Éowyn at Theodred s deathbed worked pretty well for me
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 28, 2005
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Croft, Janet B." <jbcroft@...>


      On the other hand, Wormtongue's non-canonical scene with Éowyn at Theodred's
      deathbed worked pretty well for me because it seemed well within the
      character of each, and was a "show, don't tell" scene with a basis in what
      we later hear Gandalf say about her character.

      ---------------------------------------

      Similarly, for me, the scene with Aragorn and Eowyn, where they are
      blade-to-blade. It conveys dramatically - for me at least - the things
      Tolkien tells us by recounting Aragorn's musings when he looks upon her.
      In the movies, you can only do so much of "Character assumes thoughtful
      stare and we intuit his thoughts."

      Diamond Proudbrook
    • David Bratman
      ... Tolkien never wrote a completed, successful full-length version of Beren and Luthien, so on these questions I d be more willing to defer to a film-maker s
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 28, 2005
        At 02:15 AM 4/28/2005 +0000, Michael Martinez wrote:

        >I wonder. If someone were to do the story of Beren and Luthien, how
        >much romance would be appropriate, and how much war?
        >
        >And should it have a historical epic feel to it?

        Tolkien never wrote a completed, successful full-length version of Beren
        and Luthien, so on these questions I'd be more willing to defer to a
        film-maker's judgment and taste.


        [re: Gandalf and Frodo discussing Mercy; Theoden reciting Ride of Eorl]
        >Both scenes stepped out of Tolkien's story and into their own story.
        >Peter was stealing dialogue from other parts of the literary story to
        >tell his own story. He wasn't trying to be faithful to Tolkien, he
        >was trying to be faithful to his vision of those characters'
        >motivations.

        Those scenes struck me as extremely faithful to Tolkien - among the few
        bits of the films that were. They were recast and moved around as you say,
        but to my mind faithfulness does not mean "exact replication of the details
        of the plot." It means to convey the book's spirit. Here, and in a few
        other places, Jackson did so - increasing the heartbreak at viewing the
        many places where he did not.

        As Janet wrote, "Wormtongue's non-canonical scene with Éowyn at Theodred's
        deathbed worked pretty well for me because it seemed well within the
        character of each, and was a "show, don't tell" scene with a basis in what
        we later hear Gandalf say about her character." I agree, even though this
        scene was invented by Jackson to an extent which the two scenes you mention
        were not. It's all about being true to character.


        >To put it another way, what if someone just did a movie about Aragorn
        >and Arwen, and the War of the Ring only came into it occasionally?
        >Why would that be so bad?

        It wouldn't be bad if someone wrote a piece of fan-fiction about their
        romance - or no worse than any other piece of fan-fiction. The difference
        with movies is that they tend to claim to cover the whole book.


        >It's okay to tell part of the story with history, but not with
        >fantasy? That makes no sense to me.

        I read LOTR as having a historical air lacking in The Silmarillion, which
        has a mythological air instead. The separation doesn't bother me.


        >Does the requirement that
        >travelers in Rohan (at that time) speak Rohirric count as a
        >shibboleth?

        Don't see why it shouldn't.


        David Bratman
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