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Re: Modern myths

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  • Katie Glick
    ... Speaking of, Bram Stoker s Dracula fits right in there too ... maybe even more so because the vampire has become such a pervasive figure in our culture and
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 4, 2005
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      On 4 Mar 2005 18:24:00 -0000, Debra Murphy wrote:

      >
      > Surely a "modern myth" would be Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN, and it quickly got out of her control, too--the way of all good myths, and, I think, a sign of health. That which is fixed in stone is dead.
      >

      Speaking of, Bram Stoker's Dracula fits right in there too ... maybe
      even more so because the vampire has become such a pervasive figure in
      our culture and has grown from a lone monster skulking around eastern
      Europe and England with his monster wives to a whole species that
      populates the night over the entire world. You have not only
      adaptations of the original book, but you have bodies of work by Anne
      Rice and other authors, you have "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (which
      included Dracula as a character in one episode of the TV show), you
      have role playing games based around vampires. It's interesting how
      one type of "monster" should have sparked the imagination so much.
      Because it's an interesting moral question I think--would you accept
      immortality, power and beauty if the price you had to pay was that you
      had to murder people every single night in order to sustain yourself?

      And it's interesting how people find it hard to deal with that
      question, so suddenly the literature/media contains all of these
      "good" vampires who have all the beauty, power and immortality and
      also refrigerators full of bags of pig's blood and such.

      -kt
    • jack@greenmanreview.com
      * And it s interesting how people find it hard to deal with that * question, so suddenly the literature/media contains all of these * good vampires who have
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 4, 2005
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        * And it's interesting how people find it hard to deal with that
        * question, so suddenly the literature/media contains all of these
        * "good" vampires who have all the beauty, power and immortality and
        * also refrigerators full of bags of pig's blood and such.

        I don't see that the new vampire mythos are because 'people find it
        hard to deal with that question'. My feeling is that these stories, say
        both that of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Forever Knight, are valid riffs
        that represent extensions of the original mythos. Sort of like hobbits are
        a riff off earlier myths of Little People.
      • Bonnie Callahan
        Hi Mythos dwellers: I m kicking the habit, no more movie blab. I respect all I ve heard here! In Other News.... Here s a topic. Why the appeal of the
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 4, 2005
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          Hi Mythos dwellers:

          I'm kicking the habit, no more movie blab. I respect all I've heard here!

          "In Other News...." Here's a topic. Why the appeal of the ubiquitous vampire legendry?
          Vampires are PARASITES. In fact, vampires "S**K! They hold no appeal for me.
          If it's all about sexuality, UGH. Any takers?

          Also:
          I haven't seen Constantine, but I hear it deals with a meaningful mythopoeic Christian
          theme. An injustice wherein the hero is afflicted through no fault of his own with the ability to
          see Hell's minions trashing humanity. He attempts suicide because of the pain this
          causes him, and is still "damned" by God unless he repents. This seems to portray God as
          a victimizer. The fellow refuses to repent, but rather dedicates his life to policing the
          world to fight the demons. I'm unclear on the original story line, but thought it might be
          an engaging topic for our edification.

          Have fun with it.

          Best,
          Bonnie



          Katie Glick wrote:

          > On 4 Mar 2005 18:24:00 -0000, Debra Murphy wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Surely a "modern myth" would be Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN, and it quickly got out of her control, too--the way of all good myths, and, I think, a sign of health. That which is fixed in stone is dead.
          > >
          >
          > Speaking of, Bram Stoker's Dracula fits right in there too ... maybe
          > even more so because the vampire has become such a pervasive figure in
          > our culture and has grown from a lone monster skulking around eastern
          > Europe and England with his monster wives to a whole species that
          > populates the night over the entire world. You have not only
          > adaptations of the original book, but you have bodies of work by Anne
          > Rice and other authors, you have "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (which
          > included Dracula as a character in one episode of the TV show), you
          > have role playing games based around vampires. It's interesting how
          > one type of "monster" should have sparked the imagination so much.
          > Because it's an interesting moral question I think--would you accept
          > immortality, power and beauty if the price you had to pay was that you
          > had to murder people every single night in order to sustain yourself?
          >
          > And it's interesting how people find it hard to deal with that
          > question, so suddenly the literature/media contains all of these
          > "good" vampires who have all the beauty, power and immortality and
          > also refrigerators full of bags of pig's blood and such.
          >
          > -kt
          >
          >
          > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          ... When will the next Harry Potter movie be out? (Couldn t resist...) ... vampire legendry? ... me. ... OK, vampires are bad.... but I love the St. Germain
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 5, 2005
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            > From: Bonnie Callahan <bonolatm@...>
            >
            > Hi Mythos dwellers:
            >
            > I'm kicking the habit, no more movie blab. I respect all I've heard here!
            >
            When will the next Harry Potter movie be out? (Couldn't resist...)

            > "In Other News...." Here's a topic. Why the appeal of the ubiquitous
            vampire legendry?
            > Vampires are PARASITES. In fact, vampires "S**K! They hold no appeal for
            me.
            > If it's all about sexuality, UGH. Any takers?

            OK, vampires are bad.... but I love the St. Germain books, but it is
            because of the non-vampiric things like love. I don't think they are
            mythic; they pay occasional homage to the idea of some long-ago god, just
            as Anne Rice has her Queen of the Damned who actually figures in some of
            the Lestat books. I'd not consider them mythopoeic either. Of course, I
            *like* sexuality. But you knew that already. I think the appeal is partly
            a "hook" to a character that is at once all-powerful (immortal and hard to
            kill) yet has an Achilles heel that can be treated in various ways.

            My favorite "vampires" are Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's Count Saint-Germain, and
            C.S. Friedman's Merentha. yummmmm. In both cases, there is early history
            as a character that is sort of kind of a tortured sociopath (?) and later
            history as a character that makes sacrifices for love and/or higher
            purposes. C.S. Friedman also has the main character of The Madness Season
            (I read it but once and not recently, but enjoyed it muchly).

            > Also:
            > I haven't seen Constantine, but I hear it deals with a meaningful
            mythopoeic Christian
            > theme. An injustice wherein the hero is afflicted through no fault of his
            own with the ability to
            > see Hell's minions trashing humanity. He attempts suicide because of the
            pain this
            > causes him, and is still "damned" by God unless he repents. This seems to
            portray God as
            > a victimizer. The fellow refuses to repent, but rather dedicates his life
            to policing the
            > world to fight the demons. I'm unclear on the original story line, but
            thought it might be
            > an engaging topic for our edification.
            >
            I don't know of Constantine. You mean it's not about the emperor? I guess
            I need to go look on imdb. Where's Wendell with movie news when you need
            him?

            Lizzie
            Elizabeth Apgar Triano
            lizziewriter@...
            amor vincit omnia
            www.lizziewriter.com
            www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org
          • dianejoy@earthlink.net
            Haven t seen the film, but I have heard good things. Maybe I can catch it, but not any way soon. All weekends full til after March. ---djb ... From: Bonnie
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 7, 2005
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              Haven't seen the film, but I have heard good things. Maybe I can catch it,
              but not any way soon. All weekends full til after March. ---djb

              Original Message:
              -----------------
              From: Bonnie Callahan bonolatm@...
              Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:05:47 -0800
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Modern myths



              Hi Mythos dwellers:

              I'm kicking the habit, no more movie blab. I respect all I've heard here!

              "In Other News...." Here's a topic. Why the appeal of the ubiquitous
              vampire legendry?
              Vampires are PARASITES. In fact, vampires "S**K! They hold no appeal for
              me.
              If it's all about sexuality, UGH. Any takers?

              Also:
              I haven't seen Constantine, but I hear it deals with a meaningful
              mythopoeic Christian
              theme. An injustice wherein the hero is afflicted through no fault of his
              own with the ability to
              see Hell's minions trashing humanity. He attempts suicide because of the
              pain this
              causes him, and is still "damned" by God unless he repents. This seems to
              portray God as
              a victimizer. The fellow refuses to repent, but rather dedicates his life
              to policing the
              world to fight the demons. I'm unclear on the original story line, but
              thought it might be
              an engaging topic for our edification.

              Have fun with it.

              Best,
              Bonnie



              Katie Glick wrote:

              > On 4 Mar 2005 18:24:00 -0000, Debra Murphy wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Surely a "modern myth" would be Mary Shelley's FRANKENSTEIN, and it
              quickly got out of her control, too--the way of all good myths, and, I
              think, a sign of health. That which is fixed in stone is dead.
              > >
              >
              > Speaking of, Bram Stoker's Dracula fits right in there too ... maybe
              > even more so because the vampire has become such a pervasive figure in
              > our culture and has grown from a lone monster skulking around eastern
              > Europe and England with his monster wives to a whole species that
              > populates the night over the entire world. You have not only
              > adaptations of the original book, but you have bodies of work by Anne
              > Rice and other authors, you have "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (which
              > included Dracula as a character in one episode of the TV show), you
              > have role playing games based around vampires. It's interesting how
              > one type of "monster" should have sparked the imagination so much.
              > Because it's an interesting moral question I think--would you accept
              > immortality, power and beauty if the price you had to pay was that you
              > had to murder people every single night in order to sustain yourself?
              >
              > And it's interesting how people find it hard to deal with that
              > question, so suddenly the literature/media contains all of these
              > "good" vampires who have all the beauty, power and immortality and
              > also refrigerators full of bags of pig's blood and such.
              >
              > -kt
              >
              >
              > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              Yahoo! Groups Links








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            • dianejoy@earthlink.net
              ... From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:30:15 -0500 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Modern
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 7, 2005
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                Original Message:
                -----------------
                From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@...
                Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:30:15 -0500
                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: Modern myths




                > From: Bonnie Callahan <bonolatm@...>
                >
                > Hi Mythos dwellers:
                >
                > I'm kicking the habit, no more movie blab. I respect all I've heard here!
                >
                When will the next Harry Potter movie be out? (Couldn't resist...)

                > "In Other News...." Here's a topic. Why the appeal of the ubiquitous
                vampire legendry?
                > Vampires are PARASITES. In fact, vampires "S**K! They hold no appeal for
                me.
                > If it's all about sexuality, UGH. Any takers?

                OK, vampires are bad.... but I love the St. Germain books, but it is
                because of the non-vampiric things like love. I don't think they are
                mythic; they pay occasional homage to the idea of some long-ago god, just
                as Anne Rice has her Queen of the Damned who actually figures in some of
                the Lestat books. I'd not consider them mythopoeic either. Of course, I
                *like* sexuality. But you knew that already. I think the appeal is partly
                a "hook" to a character that is at once all-powerful (immortal and hard to
                kill) yet has an Achilles heel that can be treated in various ways.

                >My favorite "vampires" are Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's Count Saint-Germain, and
                >C.S. Friedman's Merentha. yummmmm. In both cases, there is early history
                >as a character that is sort of kind of a tortured sociopath (?) and later
                >history as a character that makes sacrifices for love and/or higher
                >purposes. C.S. Friedman also has the main character of The Madness Season
                >(I read it but once and not recently, but enjoyed it muchly).

                C'mon gals, you know the vampire is the Ultimate Bad Guy who wants to turn
                good---or just plain keep on being bad (and some gals, for what ever
                reason, love Bad Guys.) Long history, aristocratic, charming, never mind
                that he bites necks. Reform him, and you get to keep all the romantic
                trappings. From Barnabas Collins to Forever Knight, the Reluctant Vampire
                is one of the most compelling romantic figures. Of course, romance means
                many things.

                My fave reluctant lives in Martin's *Fevre Dream.* But my fave vampire tale
                is *not* Anne Rice, though she has interesting touches, and over-heated
                prose. (Lestat is oh so Byronic.) This one's hard to find: *The Delicate
                Dependency: A Novel of the Vampire Life* by Michael Talbot. Best he ever
                wrote (out of three books, then he died). Talbot had one book in him, but
                it's a doozie. It's not a romance, but it's very atmospheric, taking place
                in the Victorian age, where all vampire tales really belong. (I've never
                wholly been convinced by the vampiric rock star: the lights would kill
                them!) *Dependency* has a wonderful mystery, incredible visual images, and
                corkscrew plot twists that keep turning until the very end. I've always
                thought it would make a great movie. *The Time of Feasting* is pretty good,
                introducing a modern vamp, Victor Renquist. Author is Mick Farren.
                Sequels are *Darklost* and *More than Mortal.* I haven't read either of
                these. Oh, and don't forget last year's MFA winner: Robin McKinley's
                *Sunshine.*

                Don't know Merentha. I thought I had all the C. S. Friedman out there, but
                maybe not. Can you give me a title? Nor have I read any of the St.
                Germaines. Been tempted, but I'm not sure where to get in on it; it's an
                eternally long series. Any recommends? Thanx. ---djb










                The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                Yahoo! Groups Links








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              • Berni Phillips
                From: Bonnie Callahan ... vampire legendry? ... me. ... Oh, I ll jump in here. We ve been out of town at Potlatch so I m seeing this
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 7, 2005
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                  From: "Bonnie Callahan" <bonolatm@...>
                  >
                  > "In Other News...." Here's a topic. Why the appeal of the ubiquitous
                  vampire legendry?
                  > Vampires are PARASITES. In fact, vampires "S**K! They hold no appeal for
                  me.
                  > If it's all about sexuality, UGH. Any takers?

                  Oh, I'll jump in here. We've been out of town at Potlatch so I'm seeing
                  this kind of late.

                  I think part of this is that, perhaps due to the popularity of Buffy and
                  authors like Laurell Hamilton, there is a new subgenre of vampire/werewolf
                  fantasy fiction with a strong romantic streak. Tor now has a supernatural
                  romance line where they sell these and several romance writers have crossed
                  over into the fantasy side, but their books can still be found in the
                  romance section of the bookstore.

                  I've got to say, some of it is fun brain candy -- nothing I'd ever nominate
                  for the MFA, but good to kill time with when you're too sick to concentrate
                  on much or for odd moments like waiting in line.

                  It's not just about the sexuality, although that is a strong streak (less in
                  Charlaine Harris' books about Sookie Stockhouse than in others). Some of
                  the books, like Mary Janice Davidson's (a romance writer who's crossed
                  over), are fun because she writes with a very flip, tongue-in-cheek style.
                  They won't be to everyone's taste, but I've enjoyed the ones I've read.

                  Berni
                • Rateliff, John
                  ... I d recommend starting with THE SAINT-GERMAIN CHRONICLES, a book of short stories. It gives a v. good overview of the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 7, 2005
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                    <dianajoy@... wrote>
                    > Nor have I read any of the St.
                    > Germaines. Been tempted, but I'm not sure where to get in on it; it's an
                    > eternally long series. Any recommends? Thanx. ---djb
                    >
                    I'd recommend starting with THE SAINT-GERMAIN CHRONICLES, a book of short stories. It gives a v. good overview of the character and what she's doing with the vampire myth. If you like that sample, then for the novels I'd say just go with whatever era you like best; they're really historical fiction with a continuing character as much as anything else.

                    --John R.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bonnie Callahan
                    Hey, think of it; Vampire Bodice n Jugular rippers! Gentlewriters, start your wordprocessors! Bonnie
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 7, 2005
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                      Hey, think of it; "Vampire Bodice'n'Jugular rippers!" Gentlewriters,
                      start your wordprocessors!

                      Bonnie

                      Berni Phillips wrote:

                      > From: "Bonnie Callahan" <bonolatm@...>
                      > >
                      > > "In Other News...." Here's a topic. Why the appeal of the ubiquitous
                      > vampire legendry?
                      > > Vampires are PARASITES. In fact, vampires "S**K! They hold no appeal for
                      > me.
                      > > If it's all about sexuality, UGH. Any takers?
                      >
                      > Oh, I'll jump in here. We've been out of town at Potlatch so I'm seeing
                      > this kind of late.
                      >
                      > I think part of this is that, perhaps due to the popularity of Buffy and
                      > authors like Laurell Hamilton, there is a new subgenre of vampire/werewolf
                      > fantasy fiction with a strong romantic streak. Tor now has a supernatural
                      > romance line where they sell these and several romance writers have crossed
                      > over into the fantasy side, but their books can still be found in the
                      > romance section of the bookstore.
                      >
                      > I've got to say, some of it is fun brain candy -- nothing I'd ever nominate
                      > for the MFA, but good to kill time with when you're too sick to concentrate
                      > on much or for odd moments like waiting in line.
                      >
                      > It's not just about the sexuality, although that is a strong streak (less in
                      > Charlaine Harris' books about Sookie Stockhouse than in others). Some of
                      > the books, like Mary Janice Davidson's (a romance writer who's crossed
                      > over), are fun because she writes with a very flip, tongue-in-cheek style.
                      > They won't be to everyone's taste, but I've enjoyed the ones I've read.
                      >
                      > Berni
                      >
                      >
                      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • David Bratman
                      ... An additional moral aspect in many vampire stories is that this isn t the actual bargain. Deception, or self-deception, plays a key role here. In George
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 8, 2005
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                        At 11:31 AM 3/4/2005 -0800, Katie Glick wrote:

                        >Because it's an interesting moral question I think--would you accept
                        >immortality, power and beauty if the price you had to pay was that you
                        >had to murder people every single night in order to sustain yourself?

                        An additional moral aspect in many vampire stories is that this isn't the
                        actual bargain. Deception, or self-deception, plays a key role here. In
                        George R.R. Martin's "Fevre Dream" vampires are a different species and are
                        lying to their human henchmen that it's possible to become them. In
                        "Buffy" vampires are demons that take over the body and memories of a dead
                        human: the writing often treats them as if they're the same people, but
                        several key episodes turn on the fact that they're not (in particular a
                        second season episode "Lie To Me" which I'd nominate as the best episode of
                        the series for a non-viewer to start with).


                        >And it's interesting how people find it hard to deal with that
                        >question, so suddenly the literature/media contains all of these
                        >"good" vampires who have all the beauty, power and immortality and
                        >also refrigerators full of bags of pig's blood and such.

                        Oh yes. The Wretchedly Wromantic Good Vampire is a prominent feature of
                        both works mentioned above. A large part of the appeal of vampire stories
                        is that some women find such Byronic figures highly alluring.

                        David Bratman
                      • Rachel
                        ... accept ... you ... yourself? ... Dean James writes a mystery series about a modern day vampire. It seems they now take little pills to handle their lust
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 8, 2005
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                          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@e...> wrote:
                          > At 11:31 AM 3/4/2005 -0800, Katie Glick wrote:
                          >
                          > >Because it's an interesting moral question I think--would you
                          accept
                          > >immortality, power and beauty if the price you had to pay was that
                          you
                          > >had to murder people every single night in order to sustain
                          yourself?
                          >
                          Dean James writes a mystery series about a modern day vampire. It
                          seems they now take little pills to handle their lust for blood.
                          It's an interesting take and fun, light mysteries.
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