Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Tolkien on Film

Expand Messages
  • Ted Sherman
    Was just reading Hugh Hewitt¹s blog and noticed he has a link to Tolkien on Film up; he misattributes the book to Mark Shea, not Janet Brennan Croft, so I
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 23, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Was just reading Hugh Hewitt¹s blog and noticed he has a link to Tolkien on
      Film up; he misattributes the book to Mark Shea, not Janet Brennan Croft, so
      I have written him with the clarification. But Hugh has a huge readership so
      we might see some large orders coming through for the book. Yea!

      Ted
      --------------------------------
      Dr. Ted Sherman, Editor
      Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams, and
      Mythopoeic Literature
      Professor, Department of English
      Box 041, Middle Tennessee State University
      Murfreesboro, TN 37130
      615 898.2653
      tsherman@...
      tedsherman@...




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Bratman
      I could not at first find the reference on Hugh Hewitt s blog (at , by the way), but that turned out to be because I was doing a
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 23, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        I could not at first find the reference on Hugh Hewitt's blog (at
        <http://www.hughhewitt.com/>, by the way), but that turned out to be
        because I was doing a word search for "Tolkien" and Hewitt spells it
        "Tolkein". Anyway, a direct link is at
        <http://www.hughhewitt.com/#postid1310>. It's jut a reference, not a
        review or comment or anything.

        The link takes you to Mark Shea's web page at
        <http://www.mark-shea.com/books.html>, where Shea, who does know how to
        spell "Tolkien", makes it clear that he is only a contributor, and
        reproduces the book cover with Janet's name as editor clearly visible. So
        there may not be too much confusion on that point. But Shea describes the
        book as consisting of essays "on these great film adaptations," and his use
        of the word "great" makes me wonder if he's read the rest of the book. Of
        course I haven't read the rest of the book either (I haven't received a
        copy yet), but I know what I said.

        At 08:10 AM 1/23/2005 -0600, Ted Sherman wrote:
        >
        >Was just reading Hugh Hewitt¹s blog and noticed he has a link to Tolkien on
        >Film up; he misattributes the book to Mark Shea, not Janet Brennan Croft, so
        >I have written him with the clarification. But Hugh has a huge readership so
        >we might see some large orders coming through for the book. Yea!
      • Carl F. Hostetter
        I notice this timely article on the Catholic Exchange site linked to from Mark Shea s page: ... Greg Wright of HollywoodJesus.com asked Peter Jackson how
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 23, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          I notice this timely article on the "Catholic Exchange" site linked to
          from Mark Shea's page:

          "Translating Tolkien to Film: How Visions Intersect and Clash":

          ----

          Greg Wright of HollywoodJesus.com asked Peter Jackson how members of
          his team handled this in their movie trilogy. When they wrote the scene
          in which the one ring of power is destroyed, did they discuss Tolkien's
          theory of "eucatastrophe"?

          "No," replied Jackson. "What's it mean?"

          ....

          Jackson and his co-writers, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, knew that
          Tolkien's traditional Catholic faith had deeply influenced The Lord of
          the Rings. Their goal was to keep the "spirit of Tolkien" intact, while
          producing films for modern audiences. They said they had vowed not to
          introduce new elements into the tale that would clash with Tolkien's
          vision.

          [!!!! CFH]

          ----

          http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=27086
        • Berni Phillips
          From: Ted Sherman ... so ... so ... This confusion probably came about because Mark Shea, a popular Catholic blogger, wrote on his
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 23, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            From: "Ted Sherman" <tedsherman@...>


            >Was just reading Hugh Hewitt¹s blog and noticed he has a link to Tolkien on
            >Film up; he misattributes the book to Mark Shea, not Janet Brennan Croft,
            so
            >I have written him with the clarification. But Hugh has a huge readership
            so
            >we might see some large orders coming through for the book. Yea!

            This confusion probably came about because Mark Shea, a popular Catholic
            blogger, wrote on his blog that this book was coming out and he was in it.
            (I didn't read the announcement -- Marty Helgesen reported this on the
            Christian fandom list. Marty was pretty clear that it was not Mark Shea's
            book so Hewitt must have read it wrong.) The more sales, the better!

            Berni
          • Croft, Janet B.
            Well, any publicity is good publicity, they say... Shea s own article doesn t really cast the films as great adaptations, more as just a fact of life we have
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 24, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Well, any publicity is good publicity, they say... Shea's own article
              doesn't really cast the films as "great adaptations," more as just a
              fact of life we have to get used to. For those of you on the list who DO
              think they are great adaptaions, I want to assure you that the essays
              run about half and half pro and con, so there's something for everyone!


              But it's great to see the book being noticed! I just got my copies
              Friday (and to those of you on the list who were contributors, they're
              on their way to you). They look great, and I think the Mythopoeic Press
              has done a job we can be proud to be associated with.


              Janet Brennan Croft

              -----Original Message-----
              From: David Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
              Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 1:49 PM
              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien on Film


              ... But Shea describes the book as consisting of essays "on these great
              film adaptations," and his use of the word "great" makes me wonder if
              he's read the rest of the book. Of course I haven't read the rest of
              the book either (I haven't received a copy yet), but I know what I said.
            • Croft, Janet B.
              Yeesh! I m speechless. I mean I knew they didn t really understand Tolkien s depths, but On Fairy-stories is NOT hard to find. Of course if they d read
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 24, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Yeesh! I'm speechless. I mean I knew they didn't really understand
                Tolkien's depths, but "On Fairy-stories" is NOT hard to find. Of course
                if they'd read that they might have been aware of some of Tolkien's
                criticisms of drama and adaptation. But Jackson not being familiar with
                eucatastrophe goes some way to explaining why he had Frodo fight to get
                the ring back.


                Janet

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Carl F. Hostetter [mailto:Aelfwine@...]
                Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:22 PM
                To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien on Film

                ...
                Greg Wright of HollywoodJesus.com asked Peter Jackson how members of his
                team handled this in their movie trilogy. When they wrote the scene in
                which the one ring of power is destroyed, did they discuss Tolkien's
                theory of "eucatastrophe"?

                "No," replied Jackson. "What's it mean?"


                ----

                http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=27086



                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
                In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
                At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/DtIolB/TM
                --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org Yahoo! Groups
                Links
              • Stolzi
                I am signed up to receive TMatt s columns regularly and he and I already discussed this one; I had to tell him that eucatastrophe does NOT blend Eucharist
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 24, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am signed up to receive TMatt's columns regularly and he and I already
                  discussed this one; I had to tell him that "eucatastrophe" does NOT "blend
                  Eucharist and catastrophe," linguistically speaking. But it was too late
                  for him to correct the published version.

                  Tolkien explains in "On Fairy-Stories," which as you say, the NZers did not
                  read, that he coined this term for the "turn" at the end of a fairy-story,
                  what is commonly called the "happy ending."

                  It is taken from "catastrophe" (of course) and the Greek root "eu-" for
                  "good," which is =part= of the word "Eucharist," which literally means
                  "thanksgiving." (From eu- "good" plus "charis" grace, favor)

                  Tolkien also refers more than once in that section of "On Fairy-Stories" to
                  the Gospel, calling it "Evangelium" in Latin, which is again related to the
                  same root, "eu-angelion" = "Good News."

                  I told Terry that of course the Eucharist (Mass, Lord's Supper) spells out
                  sacramentally some of the meanings of the Gospel. But it is primarily to
                  the "happy ending" of the Gospel that Tolkien is referring, rather than to
                  this specific sacrament..

                  Carl will correct me where I am wrong, I can be assured :)

                  Wish I knew whether =my= copy of TOLKIEN ON FILM is on its way. I sent a
                  check, before the Paypal was set up, and didn't send xactly the right
                  amount.

                  Diamond Proudbrook
                • Rateliff, John
                  In fact, Tolkien s theory of eucatastrophe is discussed on disk three (the first of the Appendices ) of the extended edition of RotK, I believe in the first
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 24, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In fact, Tolkien's theory of eucatastrophe is discussed on disk three (the first of the "Appendices") of the extended edition of RotK, I believe in the first of the documentaries. Jackson's rationale for why Frodo fights (and the different ways they staged it) are in the next documentary. Personally, I think he just wanted to insert the hanging-from-cliff cliche.
                    Of considerably more interest is the deleted Aragorn-vs-Sauron scene cut from the Battle at the Black Gates: a direct steal from the climax of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Interesting idea, horribly unfaithful to the book, thankfully dropped.
                    The extended edition of RotK is interesting in that it's the only one of the three that's weaker than the theatrical release. There are good bits and pieces, but they were wise to cut what they did.
                    I do have my copy of the latest MythSoc Press book. Hadn't expected the tone to be so overwhelmingly negative, but still looking forward to reading it once I finish The Science of Middle-earth.
                    Carl: thanks for the link to the Mattingly piece. I'd say he overstates the case, but that's fair enough given the venue.
                    David: entirely possible that Shea's read the book, seen the film, and just disagrees.

                    --JDR

                    > ----------
                    > From: Croft, Janet B.
                    > Reply To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:47 AM
                    > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Tolkien on Film
                    >
                    > Yeesh! I'm speechless. I mean I knew they didn't really understand
                    > Tolkien's depths, but "On Fairy-stories" is NOT hard to find. Of course
                    > if they'd read that they might have been aware of some of Tolkien's
                    > criticisms of drama and adaptation. But Jackson not being familiar with
                    > eucatastrophe goes some way to explaining why he had Frodo fight to get
                    > the ring back.
                    >
                    >
                    > Janet
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Carl F. Hostetter [mailto:Aelfwine@...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:22 PM
                    > To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Tolkien on Film
                    >
                    > ...
                    > Greg Wright of HollywoodJesus.com asked Peter Jackson how members of his
                    > team handled this in their movie trilogy. When they wrote the scene in
                    > which the one ring of power is destroyed, did they discuss Tolkien's
                    > theory of "eucatastrophe"?
                    >
                    > "No," replied Jackson. "What's it mean?"
                    >
                    >
                    > ----
                    >
                    > http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=27086
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
                    > In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
                    > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/DtIolB/TM
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                    >
                    > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org Yahoo! Groups
                    > Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mythsoc/
                    > *
                    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > * mythsoc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > *
                    > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Bratman
                    ... John, I see I didn t make my point clear. It s misleading, to say the least, to call the book a collection of essays on these great film adaptations when
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 24, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 01:42 PM 1/24/2005 -0800, JDR wrote:
                      >David: entirely possible that Shea's read the book, seen the film, and
                      >just disagrees.

                      John, I see I didn't make my point clear.

                      It's misleading, to say the least, to call the book a collection of essays
                      "on these great film adaptations" when half of the essays, as Janet points
                      out, are strongly negative.

                      David Bratman
                    • Scott McLaren
                      Good news indeed! The orders are beginning to flow in through Amazon - on the 24th they placed an order with us for 16 copies! Scott.
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 27, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Good news indeed! The orders are beginning to flow in through Amazon - on the
                        24th they placed an order with us for 16 copies!

                        Scott.


                        Quoting Ted Sherman <tedsherman@...>:

                        > Was just reading Hugh Hewitt¹s blog and noticed he has a link to Tolkien on
                        > Film up; he misattributes the book to Mark Shea, not Janet Brennan Croft, so
                        > I have written him with the clarification. But Hugh has a huge readership so
                        > we might see some large orders coming through for the book. Yea!
                        >
                        > Ted
                        > --------------------------------
                        > Dr. Ted Sherman, Editor
                        > Mythlore: A Journal of J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, Charles Williams, and
                        > Mythopoeic Literature
                        > Professor, Department of English
                        > Box 041, Middle Tennessee State University
                        > Murfreesboro, TN 37130
                        > 615 898.2653
                        > tsherman@...
                        > tedsherman@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.