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father christmas letters : 1921-22 ?/ LoR translation in Arabic

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  • Vincent Ferré
    Good evening, A new French edition of The Father Christmas Letters has just been published, and I was wondering about the absence of years 1921-1922, whereas
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 3, 2004
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      Good evening,

      A new French edition of The Father Christmas Letters has just been published, and I was wondering about the absence of years 1921-1922, whereas 1920 & 1923 ff are present. Does anyone know why ?

      And I was also wondering if a translation into Arabic exists. Do you know that ?

      thanks in advance

      Vincent



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Bratman
      ... They re not in the expanded English-language edition, either, and no explanation is provided. Possibly they were lost, or were cut for space. ... I do not
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 3, 2004
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        At 05:25 PM 12/3/2004 +0100, Vincent wrote:

        >A new French edition of The Father Christmas Letters has just been
        >published, and I was wondering about the absence of years 1921-1922, whereas
        >1920 & 1923 ff are present. Does anyone know why ?

        They're not in the expanded English-language edition, either, and no
        explanation is provided. Possibly they were lost, or were cut for space.


        >And I was also wondering if a translation into Arabic exists. Do you know
        >that ?

        I do not know, but as of 1992 no books by Tolkien had been published in
        Arabic at all, so perhaps there is none.

        David Bratman
      • Croft, Janet B.
        Both my editions are at home, but I believe the introduction says they were written every year from 1920 to 1943. Hammond s Bibliography says contains
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 6, 2004
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          Both my editions are at home, but I believe the introduction says they
          were written "every year from 1920 to 1943." Hammond's "Bibliography"
          says "contains most of the letters," so we can assume some were left
          out. One could write to Baillie Tolkien, care of Allen & Unwin, I
          suppose, and ask why some letters didn't make it into either collection,
          or if they simply didn't exist. It would be interesting to find out!
          Did these earlier letters perhaps not fit into the developing Father
          Christmas mythology?


          Janet Brennan Croft

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jack [mailto:jack@...]
          Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:35 AM
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [mythsoc] father christmas letters : 1921-22 ?/ LoR
          translation in Arabic


          >Seconding what David said -- the 1921 and 1922 letters don't appear in
          >either of the Enlish-language versions of the Christmas letters. The
          >first edition also drops the 1923 and 1924 letters. Also, there are no

          >letters in the collected "Letters" between 1916 and 1923, and
          >Carpenter's "Biography" has little specific to say about these years.
          >The family did move at least once (possibly more -- I didn't review too
          >closely) during this period, so possibly the letters were lost in a
          >move. "The Tolkien Family Album" records that in 1921 or 1922 John and
          >Michael caught the measles at a holiday party, and the bother of
          >dealing with two sick infants might have something to do with it as
          >well, at least for one of the years.

          Could it simply be taht there were no letters written in those years?

          Is there any reference anywhere to there being letters in '21 and '22?


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        • Jack
          ... No idea. But I do find it odd that there s no mention of why these letters aren t included.
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 6, 2004
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            >Both my editions are at home, but I believe the introduction says they
            >were written "every year from 1920 to 1943." Hammond's "Bibliography"
            >says "contains most of the letters," so we can assume some were left
            >out. One could write to Baillie Tolkien, care of Allen & Unwin, I
            >suppose, and ask why some letters didn't make it into either collection,
            >or if they simply didn't exist. It would be interesting to find out!
            >Did these earlier letters perhaps not fit into the developing Father
            >Christmas mythology?

            No idea. But I do find it odd that there's no mention of why these letters aren't included.
          • David Bratman
            ... Both editions introductions say categorically that, after the first letter of 1920, that they continued to arrive each Christmas. I do not, however,
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 6, 2004
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              At 11:48 AM 12/6/2004 -0600, Janet Brennan Croft wrote:
              >
              >Both my editions are at home, but I believe the introduction says they
              >were written "every year from 1920 to 1943."

              Both editions' introductions say categorically that, after the first letter
              of 1920, that "they continued to arrive each Christmas." I do not,
              however, exclude the possibility that this is misleading or even sloppy and
              that there might have been no letters.

              >Hammond's "Bibliography"
              >says "contains most of the letters," so we can assume some were left
              >out.

              That is a reference to the 1976 edition, which has about half the text of
              the 1999 edition: cuts some letters severely, omits others, and even merges
              two letters together. However in some respects the earlier edition is
              better: see my review of the '99 edition in the Feb. 2000 Mythprint.

              David Bratman
            • Jack
              ... I was being kind in not suggesting that the copy might be misleading or poorly edited.
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 6, 2004
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                >Both editions' introductions say categorically that, after the first letter
                >of 1920, that "they continued to arrive each Christmas." I do not,
                >however, exclude the possibility that this is misleading or even sloppy and
                >that there might have been no letters.

                I was being kind in not suggesting that the copy might be misleading or poorly edited.
              • Wayne G. Hammond
                ... Christina and I have looked into this as much as possible, for an account of the Father Christmas letters in our _Tolkien Companion and Guide_, and
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 6, 2004
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                  David wrote:

                  >Both editions' introductions say categorically that, after the first letter
                  >of 1920, that "they continued to arrive each Christmas." I do not,
                  >however, exclude the possibility that this is misleading or even sloppy and
                  >that there might have been no letters.

                  Christina and I have looked into this as much as possible, for an account
                  of the Father Christmas letters in our _Tolkien Companion and Guide_, and
                  conclude that either there were no letters in 1921 and 1922 (despite what
                  the introductions say), or those for 1921 and 1922 have been lost.
                  Certainly they would have been published if extant.

                  As for Vincent's other question, we don't know of any translation of LR
                  into Arabic to date.

                  Wayne


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                • David Bratman
                  ... It d have to be, for your suggested explanation to be true. I was merely saying I consider that to be possible. David Bratman
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 6, 2004
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                    At 01:08 PM 12/6/2004 -0500, Jack wrote:

                    >I was being kind in not suggesting that the copy might be misleading or
                    >poorly edited.

                    It'd have to be, for your suggested explanation to be true. I was merely
                    saying I consider that to be possible.

                    David Bratman
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