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Re: [mythsoc] cultural mutual incomprehension

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  • David Bratman
    From: steve ... Incomprehension is the word, all right. I feel obliged to point out how offensive, inappropriate, and inaccurate
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2004
      From: "steve" <sschaper@...>

      >It may well be that we are also clueless as to theirs, in
      > spite of cable. Twas in Kalipornea that the Declaration of Independence
      > was banned, not Kanawha, Iowa, after all.

      "Incomprehension" is the word, all right. I feel obliged to point out how
      offensive, inappropriate, and inaccurate this also is.

      First off, I didn't even at first recognize that "Kalipornea" was supposed
      to be "California", and as a crude hysterical distortion it is exactly
      equivalent to the "Amerikkka" of hysterical leftism of times past.

      Second, nobody banned the Declaration of Independence anywhere. This claim
      also is barely recognizable as a crude distortion of the story of a teacher
      - at a public school - who was ordered to stop distributing to his students
      handouts of his own devising which were attempts to propagandize for his
      religious views. They included quotes referring to God from US historical
      documents, including the Declaration. The attempt was to portray the US as
      a Christian nation, which is 1) a direct offense at every Jew [yes, Jew -
      Jews recognize that "Judeo-Christian" is an attempt to co-opt Judaism into
      Christianity], Muslim, Hindu, and everything else who live here; 2) in
      direct opposition to the principle of freedom of religion on which it was
      built; 3) not true anyway. (There are many testaments by the Founders that
      they did not intend a Christian country, and Jefferson - author of the
      Declaration - was specifically not a Christian and was sometimes falsely
      accused of being an atheist.)

      This is a list for mythopoeic fantasy, not paranoid psychological fantasy.
      Let's remember the difference.

      David Bratman
    • Katie
      ... This claim ... teacher ... students ... Heh. I was just coming here to write this. It was bad enough when it was just a school in California banning the
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
        --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@e...> wrote:
        >
        > Second, nobody banned the Declaration of Independence anywhere.
        This claim
        > also is barely recognizable as a crude distortion of the story of a
        teacher
        > - at a public school - who was ordered to stop distributing to his
        students
        > handouts of his own devising which were attempts to propagandize for his
        > religious views.

        Heh. I was just coming here to write this. It was bad enough when it
        was just a school in California "banning" the Declaration of
        Independence, now it is the entire state that has banned the
        Declaration of Independence (and has apparently been renamed--because
        we hate freedom and love porn! Yay porn!)

        Really, this is the kind of attitude that leads to this disconnect. My
        upstairs neighbour has a sign in his window that says "Middle America
        Sucks." I hate looking at it. With signs like that and nicknames like
        Kalipornea, etc. the disconnect only grows wider. It's not an "east
        coast" or "west coast" or "midwest" disconnect. It is a nationwide
        disconnect that allows us to be believe that geography can somehow
        dictate people's personalities, intelligence and morality. It's dumb
        and it's hurtful. I'll respect people for who they are, not where they
        live and I kindly ask that others do the same for me.

        Also, here's a good link with an explanation of the declaration of
        independence story:

        http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html

        -kt
      • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        I guess this is not the time to stand up and sing Tom Lehrer s song Smut . . . ? Lizzie Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net amor vincit omnia
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
          I guess this is not the time to stand up and sing Tom Lehrer's song "Smut"
          . . . ?

          Lizzie

          Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          lizziewriter@...
          amor vincit omnia
          www.lizziewriter.com
          www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org
        • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          from Original post: Also, here s a good link with an explanation of the declaration of independence story:
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
            from Original post:

            Also, here's a good link with an explanation of the declaration of
            independence story:

            http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html

            -kt

            My question:

            Actually, the first thing that came up on that link this morning (Thursday)
            was a paragraph of really foul language that meant nothing. Sort of your
            basic American dialogue that one can overhead anywhere (train, movies,
            shopping, whatever). Anyone have a better link?



            Elizabeth Apgar Triano
            lizziewriter@...
            amor vincit omnia
            www.lizziewriter.com
            www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org
          • Stolzi
            ... From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano ... (Thursday) ... Lizzie, you need to scroll down. There s a longish posting below which
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Elizabeth Apgar Triano" <lizziewriter@...>

              > http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html

              > Actually, the first thing that came up on that link this morning
              (Thursday)
              > was a paragraph of really foul language that meant nothing. Sort of your
              > basic American dialogue that one can overhead anywhere (train, movies,
              > shopping, whatever). Anyone have a better link?
              >

              Lizzie, you need to scroll down. There's a longish posting below which
              attempts to explain the "declaration of independence story." That was
              probably at the top when kt posted the link.

              Diamond Proudbrook
            • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
              Frankly, I didn t feel the urge to scroll down, given the first couple of posts I saw. I ll hear about this little anecdote some other time I suppose.
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                Frankly, I didn't feel the urge to scroll down, given the first couple of
                posts I saw. I'll hear about this little anecdote some other time I
                suppose.

                Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                lizziewriter@...
                amor vincit omnia
                www.lizziewriter.com
                www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org


                > [Original Message]
                > From: Stolzi <Stolzi@...>
                > To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: 12/2/2004 9:47:11 AM
                > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: cultural mutual incomprehension
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Elizabeth Apgar Triano" <lizziewriter@...>
                >
                > >
                http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html
                >
                > > Actually, the first thing that came up on that link this morning
                > (Thursday)
                > > was a paragraph of really foul language that meant nothing. Sort of
                your
                > > basic American dialogue that one can overhead anywhere (train, movies,
                > > shopping, whatever). Anyone have a better link?
                > >
                >
                > Lizzie, you need to scroll down. There's a longish posting below which
                > attempts to explain the "declaration of independence story." That was
                > probably at the top when kt posted the link.
                >
                > Diamond Proudbrook
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • David Bratman
                Lizzie, I explained the banning the Declaration of Independence lie in my previous post. A public school teacher had quoted the God-referring passages of
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                  Lizzie, I explained the "banning the Declaration of Independence" lie in my
                  previous post. A public school teacher had quoted the God-referring
                  passages of the Declaration in religious proselytizing handouts that he was
                  illegally giving to his students. He was ordered to stop.

                  Since Steve thinks we coasters are all porn-lovers, let me put it this way.
                  Let's say there was a porn movie in which an actor, at the moment of
                  ecstacy, blurted out the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of
                  happiness!" And let's say Steve was a school principal who ordered that
                  movie not to be shown in classrooms.

                  He would be just as guilty of "banning the Declaration of Independence" as
                  the school principal in the real-life case.

                  This is a non-story that certain right wing-nuts are trying to make out of
                  nothing. I live in the school district where this took place, and I don't
                  even recall reading anything about it in the papers. But it's not being
                  supressed, because I found enough when I looked for it.

                  David Bratman
                • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                  lol Thank you, David. I did see your summary, and this follow-up was very helpful. I wonder why I didn t get an irate email forwarding of the story from my
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                    lol Thank you, David. I did see your summary, and this follow-up was very
                    helpful. I wonder why I didn't get an irate email forwarding of the story
                    from my dad (who is probably one of those right wing-nuts).

                    Most porn is such garbage, it's almost as bad as regular TV.

                    I would like to see California some day. I hear you have great produce,
                    year-round outdoor sports weather, and of course, those redwood trees up in
                    the north. The rest of us are just envious (or "jealous" as they say).

                    best,

                    Lizzie

                    Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                    lizziewriter@...
                    amor vincit omnia
                    www.lizziewriter.com
                    www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org


                    > [Original Message]
                    > From: David Bratman <dbratman@...>
                    > To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Date: 12/2/2004 10:31:52 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] cultural mutual incomprehension
                    >
                    >
                    > Lizzie, I explained the "banning the Declaration of Independence" lie in
                    my
                    > previous post. A public school teacher had quoted the God-referring
                    > passages of the Declaration in religious proselytizing handouts that he
                    was
                    > illegally giving to his students. He was ordered to stop.
                    >
                    > Since Steve thinks we coasters are all porn-lovers, let me put it this
                    way.
                    > Let's say there was a porn movie in which an actor, at the moment of
                    > ecstacy, blurted out the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of
                    > happiness!" And let's say Steve was a school principal who ordered that
                    > movie not to be shown in classrooms.
                    >
                    > He would be just as guilty of "banning the Declaration of Independence" as
                    > the school principal in the real-life case.
                    >
                    > This is a non-story that certain right wing-nuts are trying to make out of
                    > nothing. I live in the school district where this took place, and I don't
                    > even recall reading anything about it in the papers. But it's not being
                    > supressed, because I found enough when I looked for it.
                    >
                    > David Bratman
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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