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Re: [mythsoc] Fwd: Watership Down

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  • WendellWag@aol.com
    My immediate snide response to Tiffany is: Do your own homework. This is a question from a homework assignment on the book Watership Down, right? The way
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
      My immediate snide response to Tiffany is:

      Do your own homework. This is a question from a homework assignment on the
      book Watership Down, right? The way that this question is asked certainly
      doesn't sound like the way that someone would naturally ask a question that
      they're researching for their own benefit.

      Wendell Wagner
    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 3/21/00 1:30:05 PM Central Standard Time, ... I think Wendell is right. Mary S
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
        In a message dated 3/21/00 1:30:05 PM Central Standard Time,
        WendellWag@... writes:

        > response to Tiffany

        I think Wendell is right.

        Mary S
      • ERATRIANO@aol.com
        In a message dated 03/21/2000 5:47:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes: LOL so do I. My other thought was, er,
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
          In a message dated 03/21/2000 5:47:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          Stolzi@... writes:

          << think Wendell is right. >>
          LOL so do I. My other thought was, er, maybe it's Tiffany's thesis and she's
          trying it out for takers. I'd be tempted to add, "How does the sequel
          support, modify, or alter the initial arguments?" But I deleted the initial
          email. LOL

          Lizzie
        • WendellWag@aol.com
          Let me note that I didn t actually send anything to Tiffany. It wouldn t be worth the trouble. Wendell
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
            Let me note that I didn't actually send anything to Tiffany. It wouldn't be
            worth the trouble.

            Wendell
          • WendellWag@aol.com
            ... you could ... society. ... characters ... the ... I guess that I agree with Steve Savile that this is an awfully general (and yet somehow vague) question
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
              Lizzie, here's the question that this Tiffany originally asked:

              > Hi I have a question that I am very interested in finding the answer. If
              you could
              > help me I would appreciate it. Here it is :
              >
              > Throughout the years, numerous people have devoted themselves to the study
              > of societal behaviors and the progression of society. It has been observed
              > that certain elements are needed for the establishment of a social
              society.
              > What are the elements to have a successful society and and which
              characters
              > from the novel Watership Down fulfill or provide these elements? How do
              the
              > dynamics of society change if any one of the elements is missing?

              I guess that I agree with Steve Savile that this is an awfully general (and
              yet somehow vague) question to ask for a homework assignment, even if the
              teacher has given the students two weeks to do it. I don't think the teacher
              has thought through this question very well.
            • Stolzi@aol.com
              ... characters ... This is a rather good question designed to get Tiffany a) to read the book and b) to think about it. If =we= give her answers, what has she
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
                Tiffany wrote:

                > > What are the elements to have a successful society and and which
                characters
                > > from the novel Watership Down fulfill or provide these elements?


                This is a rather good question designed to get Tiffany a) to read the book
                and b) to think about it. If =we= give her answers, what has she gained? A
                grade, maybe, but not education.

                Mary S
              • Berni Phillips
                ... I m with Mary on this. My interpretation is that Tiffany doesn t need to do any research, online or otherwise. She just needs to read the book and think
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
                  >From: Stolzi@...
                  >
                  >Tiffany wrote:
                  >
                  >> > What are the elements to have a successful society and and which
                  >characters
                  >> > from the novel Watership Down fulfill or provide these elements?
                  >
                  >
                  >This is a rather good question designed to get Tiffany a) to read the book
                  >and b) to think about it. If =we= give her answers, what has she gained? A
                  >grade, maybe, but not education.

                  I'm with Mary on this. My interpretation is that Tiffany doesn't need
                  to do any research, online or otherwise. She just needs to read the book
                  and think about what she's read. Presumably she has some idea of what
                  a society needs, and I think it would be more interesting to have just the
                  kids' perspective on that than whatever answers they could get from adults.

                  Berni
                • David S. Bratman
                  I m with Mary and Berni on this. The question sounds like a term paper assignment, and one that requires merely that the student read the book and think about
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
                    I'm with Mary and Berni on this. The question sounds like a term paper
                    assignment, and one that requires merely that the student read the book
                    and think about it a little. It's actually not a bad assignment, and in
                    fact I once wrote a Mythcon paper that discussed _Watership Down_ and
                    touched on this question.

                    Sure, teachers make assignments that either a) require the students to go
                    out, to the Internet or elsewhere, and do research; and/or b) require or
                    encourage the students to ask questions of experts or other people, but
                    these assignments will be phrased very differently.

                    I imagine that T-----y thought she was being very clever, prefacing the
                    quoted assignment with a sentence of her own, "I was wondering about ..."
                    but in fact her motivation is as transparent as Bilbo with the Ring on,
                    and if she actually succeeds in getting some helpful fool out there to
                    write her term paper for her, any teacher worth her salt will see right
                    through that too.

                    Y'know, one _could_ turn an assignment like this into a survey, by
                    picking a relevant close-ended (as opposed to open-ended) question about
                    the book and asking a lot of people (e.g. "Do you think that Adams
                    succeeds at showing ..., yes or no?"), and taking their answers and
                    comments and making a survey result of it as part of the paper. But a
                    student doing that should be honest about what they're doing, and this
                    wasn't that kind of question.

                    David Bratman
                    - not responsible for the following advertisement -
                  • Diane Joy Baker
                    I don t know what the inquirer means by social society. Is there an anti-social society, or some other kind? (CSL s sorns weren t very social because they
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 21, 2000
                      I don't know what the inquirer means by "social society." Is there an
                      "anti-social society," or some other kind? (CSL's sorns weren't very social
                      because they were pre-occupied; a lot like Oxford dons, I imagine!) ---djb.

                      {snip}

                      > >
                      > > Throughout the years, numerous people have devoted themselves to the
                      study
                      > > of societal behaviors and the progression of society. It has been
                      observed
                      > > that certain elements are needed for the establishment of a social
                      society.
                    • Stolzi@aol.com
                      In a message dated 3/21/00 11:01:47 PM Central Standard Time, ... Yes, Adams definitely -wanted- to say something about society - witness the prominence of
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 22, 2000
                        In a message dated 3/21/00 11:01:47 PM Central Standard Time,
                        dbratman@... writes:

                        > It's actually not a bad assignment, and in
                        > fact I once wrote a Mythcon paper that discussed _Watership Down_ and
                        > touched on this question.

                        Yes, Adams definitely -wanted- to say something about society - witness the
                        prominence of Efrafra in the story. I'm sure General Woundwort, for
                        instance, is one of the characters the teacher wants discussed.
                      • stephen@stephen.com
                        Also, posting T s original question to this list may actually have been a violation of privacy.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 24, 2000
                          Also, posting T's original question to this list may actually have been a
                          violation of privacy.

                          In a message dated 3/24/00 9:17:07 AM, verba001@... writes:

                          >From: "Joan Marie Verba" <verba001@...>
                          >
                          >Paul wrote:
                          >
                          >>I think it would serve T well to review this entire discussion. If you
                          >
                          >>have
                          >>her e-mail address, Matt, please send it to me. I would like to send
                          >the
                          >>whole set to her.
                          >>
                          >>Incidentally, for any of you who would like to review old posts to this
                          >>list, the full history is archived at the list homepage at onelist.com.
                          >
                          >It is true that the Stewards authorized a public archive of this list,
                          >
                          >which can be inspected at www.onelist.com
                          >
                          >Still, in a previous post (and it's in the list welcome now, as a result
                          >of
                          >discussions among the Stewards), I did recommend and encourage that items
                          >
                          >on this list not be forwarded off the list without the consent of the
                          >parties making the posts. I do recall that one participant in this
                          >discussion asked that his comments not be forwarded to the party specified.
                          >
                          >Joan
                          >
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