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Re: [mythsoc] cultural mutual incomprehension

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  • Berni Phillips
    From: steve ... I have no idea what you mean by this. Sharpies, I know -- I use them in my job every day. ... And this relates to
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2004
      From: "steve" <sschaper@...>

      > Berni, you have ostraca written on with Sharpies? ;-)

      I have no idea what you mean by this. Sharpies, I know -- I use them in my
      job every day.

      >
      > I think that the discussion about the 'disconnect' is about how the US
      > is now more or less two nations, the urban centers having one culture,
      > and the small town and rural areas having another. A look at the
      > county-by-county voting map is instructive.

      And this relates to mythopoeic literature how? I know I asked what
      exactly DJ meant, and I suspected she meant this, but I wanted her
      to spell it out. Nonetheless, it is extremely off-topic and insulting to
      many of us.

      >It may well be that we are also clueless as to theirs, in
      > spite of cable. Twas in Kalipornea that the Declaration of Independence
      > was banned, not Kanawha, Iowa, after all.

      We are not cable people ourselves. And I don't know what this "Kalipornea"
      is. I happen to live in California, and if you are calling my state, the
      land I love, that obnoxious term above, I see we have nothing to discuss.
      Many of us Californians are devout Christians -- not that that has anything
      to do with this, either (and is also off-topic). To imply that the entire
      state is involved with the porn business is extremely insulting and
      off-topic.

      And that's the last I have to say regarding this. I will go back to just
      blocking particular e-mail addresses so I don't have to read stuff
      off-topic.

      Berni
    • David Bratman
      From: steve ... Incomprehension is the word, all right. I feel obliged to point out how offensive, inappropriate, and inaccurate
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 1, 2004
        From: "steve" <sschaper@...>

        >It may well be that we are also clueless as to theirs, in
        > spite of cable. Twas in Kalipornea that the Declaration of Independence
        > was banned, not Kanawha, Iowa, after all.

        "Incomprehension" is the word, all right. I feel obliged to point out how
        offensive, inappropriate, and inaccurate this also is.

        First off, I didn't even at first recognize that "Kalipornea" was supposed
        to be "California", and as a crude hysterical distortion it is exactly
        equivalent to the "Amerikkka" of hysterical leftism of times past.

        Second, nobody banned the Declaration of Independence anywhere. This claim
        also is barely recognizable as a crude distortion of the story of a teacher
        - at a public school - who was ordered to stop distributing to his students
        handouts of his own devising which were attempts to propagandize for his
        religious views. They included quotes referring to God from US historical
        documents, including the Declaration. The attempt was to portray the US as
        a Christian nation, which is 1) a direct offense at every Jew [yes, Jew -
        Jews recognize that "Judeo-Christian" is an attempt to co-opt Judaism into
        Christianity], Muslim, Hindu, and everything else who live here; 2) in
        direct opposition to the principle of freedom of religion on which it was
        built; 3) not true anyway. (There are many testaments by the Founders that
        they did not intend a Christian country, and Jefferson - author of the
        Declaration - was specifically not a Christian and was sometimes falsely
        accused of being an atheist.)

        This is a list for mythopoeic fantasy, not paranoid psychological fantasy.
        Let's remember the difference.

        David Bratman
      • Katie
        ... This claim ... teacher ... students ... Heh. I was just coming here to write this. It was bad enough when it was just a school in California banning the
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@e...> wrote:
          >
          > Second, nobody banned the Declaration of Independence anywhere.
          This claim
          > also is barely recognizable as a crude distortion of the story of a
          teacher
          > - at a public school - who was ordered to stop distributing to his
          students
          > handouts of his own devising which were attempts to propagandize for his
          > religious views.

          Heh. I was just coming here to write this. It was bad enough when it
          was just a school in California "banning" the Declaration of
          Independence, now it is the entire state that has banned the
          Declaration of Independence (and has apparently been renamed--because
          we hate freedom and love porn! Yay porn!)

          Really, this is the kind of attitude that leads to this disconnect. My
          upstairs neighbour has a sign in his window that says "Middle America
          Sucks." I hate looking at it. With signs like that and nicknames like
          Kalipornea, etc. the disconnect only grows wider. It's not an "east
          coast" or "west coast" or "midwest" disconnect. It is a nationwide
          disconnect that allows us to be believe that geography can somehow
          dictate people's personalities, intelligence and morality. It's dumb
          and it's hurtful. I'll respect people for who they are, not where they
          live and I kindly ask that others do the same for me.

          Also, here's a good link with an explanation of the declaration of
          independence story:

          http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html

          -kt
        • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          I guess this is not the time to stand up and sing Tom Lehrer s song Smut . . . ? Lizzie Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net amor vincit omnia
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
            I guess this is not the time to stand up and sing Tom Lehrer's song "Smut"
            . . . ?

            Lizzie

            Elizabeth Apgar Triano
            lizziewriter@...
            amor vincit omnia
            www.lizziewriter.com
            www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org
          • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
            from Original post: Also, here s a good link with an explanation of the declaration of independence story:
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
              from Original post:

              Also, here's a good link with an explanation of the declaration of
              independence story:

              http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html

              -kt

              My question:

              Actually, the first thing that came up on that link this morning (Thursday)
              was a paragraph of really foul language that meant nothing. Sort of your
              basic American dialogue that one can overhead anywhere (train, movies,
              shopping, whatever). Anyone have a better link?



              Elizabeth Apgar Triano
              lizziewriter@...
              amor vincit omnia
              www.lizziewriter.com
              www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org
            • Stolzi
              ... From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano ... (Thursday) ... Lizzie, you need to scroll down. There s a longish posting below which
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Elizabeth Apgar Triano" <lizziewriter@...>

                > http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html

                > Actually, the first thing that came up on that link this morning
                (Thursday)
                > was a paragraph of really foul language that meant nothing. Sort of your
                > basic American dialogue that one can overhead anywhere (train, movies,
                > shopping, whatever). Anyone have a better link?
                >

                Lizzie, you need to scroll down. There's a longish posting below which
                attempts to explain the "declaration of independence story." That was
                probably at the top when kt posted the link.

                Diamond Proudbrook
              • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                Frankly, I didn t feel the urge to scroll down, given the first couple of posts I saw. I ll hear about this little anecdote some other time I suppose.
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                  Frankly, I didn't feel the urge to scroll down, given the first couple of
                  posts I saw. I'll hear about this little anecdote some other time I
                  suppose.

                  Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                  lizziewriter@...
                  amor vincit omnia
                  www.lizziewriter.com
                  www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org


                  > [Original Message]
                  > From: Stolzi <Stolzi@...>
                  > To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: 12/2/2004 9:47:11 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Re: cultural mutual incomprehension
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Elizabeth Apgar Triano" <lizziewriter@...>
                  >
                  > >
                  http://www.weberrific.org/2004/11/declaration-of-independence-banned.html
                  >
                  > > Actually, the first thing that came up on that link this morning
                  > (Thursday)
                  > > was a paragraph of really foul language that meant nothing. Sort of
                  your
                  > > basic American dialogue that one can overhead anywhere (train, movies,
                  > > shopping, whatever). Anyone have a better link?
                  > >
                  >
                  > Lizzie, you need to scroll down. There's a longish posting below which
                  > attempts to explain the "declaration of independence story." That was
                  > probably at the top when kt posted the link.
                  >
                  > Diamond Proudbrook
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • David Bratman
                  Lizzie, I explained the banning the Declaration of Independence lie in my previous post. A public school teacher had quoted the God-referring passages of
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                    Lizzie, I explained the "banning the Declaration of Independence" lie in my
                    previous post. A public school teacher had quoted the God-referring
                    passages of the Declaration in religious proselytizing handouts that he was
                    illegally giving to his students. He was ordered to stop.

                    Since Steve thinks we coasters are all porn-lovers, let me put it this way.
                    Let's say there was a porn movie in which an actor, at the moment of
                    ecstacy, blurted out the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of
                    happiness!" And let's say Steve was a school principal who ordered that
                    movie not to be shown in classrooms.

                    He would be just as guilty of "banning the Declaration of Independence" as
                    the school principal in the real-life case.

                    This is a non-story that certain right wing-nuts are trying to make out of
                    nothing. I live in the school district where this took place, and I don't
                    even recall reading anything about it in the papers. But it's not being
                    supressed, because I found enough when I looked for it.

                    David Bratman
                  • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                    lol Thank you, David. I did see your summary, and this follow-up was very helpful. I wonder why I didn t get an irate email forwarding of the story from my
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 2, 2004
                      lol Thank you, David. I did see your summary, and this follow-up was very
                      helpful. I wonder why I didn't get an irate email forwarding of the story
                      from my dad (who is probably one of those right wing-nuts).

                      Most porn is such garbage, it's almost as bad as regular TV.

                      I would like to see California some day. I hear you have great produce,
                      year-round outdoor sports weather, and of course, those redwood trees up in
                      the north. The rest of us are just envious (or "jealous" as they say).

                      best,

                      Lizzie

                      Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                      lizziewriter@...
                      amor vincit omnia
                      www.lizziewriter.com
                      www.danburymineralogicalsociety.org


                      > [Original Message]
                      > From: David Bratman <dbratman@...>
                      > To: <mythsoc@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Date: 12/2/2004 10:31:52 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] cultural mutual incomprehension
                      >
                      >
                      > Lizzie, I explained the "banning the Declaration of Independence" lie in
                      my
                      > previous post. A public school teacher had quoted the God-referring
                      > passages of the Declaration in religious proselytizing handouts that he
                      was
                      > illegally giving to his students. He was ordered to stop.
                      >
                      > Since Steve thinks we coasters are all porn-lovers, let me put it this
                      way.
                      > Let's say there was a porn movie in which an actor, at the moment of
                      > ecstacy, blurted out the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of
                      > happiness!" And let's say Steve was a school principal who ordered that
                      > movie not to be shown in classrooms.
                      >
                      > He would be just as guilty of "banning the Declaration of Independence" as
                      > the school principal in the real-life case.
                      >
                      > This is a non-story that certain right wing-nuts are trying to make out of
                      > nothing. I live in the school district where this took place, and I don't
                      > even recall reading anything about it in the papers. But it's not being
                      > supressed, because I found enough when I looked for it.
                      >
                      > David Bratman
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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