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Re: [mythsoc] Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell author says...

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  • David Bratman
    ... OK about the name, because she doesn t say that he has no name, but that no-one knows it because he himself has forgotten it. That s quite different from
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
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      At 01:53 PM 10/1/2004 -0500, Joshua Ellis wrote:

      >I found a text copy of the interview on indigo.ca
      >(<http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Catalog=books&Item=978074757411>)
      >and from that it is clear she is referring to The Mouth of Sauron.

      OK about the name, because she doesn't say that he has no name, but that
      no-one knows it because he himself has forgotten it. That's quite
      different from what Jack originally reported (doubtless simply misremembering).

      However, she's wrong in saying that he's "a magician ... who comes out of
      Mordor to do battle against our heroes." He represents himself as a herald
      and ambassador, and while his soldiers give the signal for attack, he does
      not fight himself. And though it is said that he knows "great sorcery,"
      he's never shown using it. Some magician.

      David Bratman
    • jack@greenmanreview.com
      ... Possibly. I was listening, not reading. But I d swear that was what she said. Anyone else lsien to it?
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
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        > OK about the name, because she doesn't say that he has no name, but that
        > no-one knows it because he himself has forgotten it. That's quite
        > different from what Jack originally reported (doubtless simply
        > misremembering).

        Possibly. I was listening, not reading. But I'd swear that was what she
        said. Anyone else lsien to it?
      • Beth Russell
        Dear Joshua, Thank you for the transcript and text quotation. This pedant thinks she was a bit loose with her terminology! Having forgotten a name does not
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 2, 2004
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          Dear Joshua,

          Thank you for the transcript and text quotation. This pedant thinks she
          was a bit loose with her terminology!

          Having forgotten a name does not mean that there is no name. On the
          contrary, it expressly says that there is a name. (If I forget my
          dentist appointment, that does not mean there was no appointment.) And
          in the context of LoTR, Sauron, being a Maia, would have known his name.

          Secondly, the Mouth of Sauron came as an emissary, not to do battle.

          Cheers,

          Beth

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Joshua Ellis [mailto:josh@...]
          Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:54 PM
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell author says...


          > She's thinking of the Witch King, the Lord of
          > the Nazgul. He's otherwise unnamed (except for
          > an occasional "Angmar" for the country he was
          > once king of), and "witch" is close enough of
          > a synonym to "magician". That's gotta be it.

          I found a text copy of the interview on indigo.ca
          (<http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Catalog=books&Item=978074757411
          >)
          and from that it is clear she is referring to The Mouth of Sauron.

          From the interview:

          The Raven King had an odd genesis. Ursula Le
          Guin has a magician in the Earthsea trilogy
          who has no name: the Grey Mage of Paln, whose
          magic was so dubious, his name was forgotten. And
          there’s a magician in The Lord of the Rings, right
          at the very end, who comes out of Mordor to do
          battle against our heroes, and no one knows his
          name because he himself has forgotten it.

          From The Return of the King:

          The rider was robed all in black, and black
          was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith
          but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower
          of Barad-Dûr he was, and his name is remembered
          in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it,
          and he said: "I am the Mouth of Sauron."

          --
          ===[Joshua Ellis]===============[S-D-G]===============[-0.809016994]===
          josh@... -+- http://www.apostate.com/ -+- LJ:deteriorata
          | The truth is rarely pure and never simple. Modern life would be |
          | very tedious if it were either, and modern literature a complete |
          | impossibility! -- Oscar Wilde |
          Currently Reading "The Colour Out of Space" edited by D. Thin




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