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Re: [mythsoc] Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell author says...

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  • Joshua Ellis
    ... I found a text copy of the interview on indigo.ca ( ) and from that it is clear she
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
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      > She's thinking of the Witch King, the Lord of
      > the Nazgul. He's otherwise unnamed (except for
      > an occasional "Angmar" for the country he was
      > once king of), and "witch" is close enough of
      > a synonym to "magician". That's gotta be it.

      I found a text copy of the interview on indigo.ca
      (<http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Catalog=books&Item=978074757411>)
      and from that it is clear she is referring to The Mouth of Sauron.

      From the interview:

      The Raven King had an odd genesis. Ursula Le
      Guin has a magician in the Earthsea trilogy
      who has no name: the Grey Mage of Paln, whose
      magic was so dubious, his name was forgotten. And
      there’s a magician in The Lord of the Rings, right
      at the very end, who comes out of Mordor to do
      battle against our heroes, and no one knows his
      name because he himself has forgotten it.

      From The Return of the King:

      The rider was robed all in black, and black
      was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith
      but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower
      of Barad-Dûr he was, and his name is remembered
      in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it,
      and he said: "I am the Mouth of Sauron."

      --
      ===[Joshua Ellis]===============[S-D-G]===============[-0.809016994]===
      josh@... -+- http://www.apostate.com/ -+- LJ:deteriorata
      | The truth is rarely pure and never simple. Modern life would be |
      | very tedious if it were either, and modern literature a complete |
      | impossibility! -- Oscar Wilde |
      Currently Reading "The Colour Out of Space" edited by D. Thin
    • David Bratman
      ... OK about the name, because she doesn t say that he has no name, but that no-one knows it because he himself has forgotten it. That s quite different from
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
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        At 01:53 PM 10/1/2004 -0500, Joshua Ellis wrote:

        >I found a text copy of the interview on indigo.ca
        >(<http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Catalog=books&Item=978074757411>)
        >and from that it is clear she is referring to The Mouth of Sauron.

        OK about the name, because she doesn't say that he has no name, but that
        no-one knows it because he himself has forgotten it. That's quite
        different from what Jack originally reported (doubtless simply misremembering).

        However, she's wrong in saying that he's "a magician ... who comes out of
        Mordor to do battle against our heroes." He represents himself as a herald
        and ambassador, and while his soldiers give the signal for attack, he does
        not fight himself. And though it is said that he knows "great sorcery,"
        he's never shown using it. Some magician.

        David Bratman
      • jack@greenmanreview.com
        ... Possibly. I was listening, not reading. But I d swear that was what she said. Anyone else lsien to it?
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
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          > OK about the name, because she doesn't say that he has no name, but that
          > no-one knows it because he himself has forgotten it. That's quite
          > different from what Jack originally reported (doubtless simply
          > misremembering).

          Possibly. I was listening, not reading. But I'd swear that was what she
          said. Anyone else lsien to it?
        • Beth Russell
          Dear Joshua, Thank you for the transcript and text quotation. This pedant thinks she was a bit loose with her terminology! Having forgotten a name does not
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 2, 2004
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            Dear Joshua,

            Thank you for the transcript and text quotation. This pedant thinks she
            was a bit loose with her terminology!

            Having forgotten a name does not mean that there is no name. On the
            contrary, it expressly says that there is a name. (If I forget my
            dentist appointment, that does not mean there was no appointment.) And
            in the context of LoTR, Sauron, being a Maia, would have known his name.

            Secondly, the Mouth of Sauron came as an emissary, not to do battle.

            Cheers,

            Beth

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Joshua Ellis [mailto:josh@...]
            Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:54 PM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell author says...


            > She's thinking of the Witch King, the Lord of
            > the Nazgul. He's otherwise unnamed (except for
            > an occasional "Angmar" for the country he was
            > once king of), and "witch" is close enough of
            > a synonym to "magician". That's gotta be it.

            I found a text copy of the interview on indigo.ca
            (<http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Catalog=books&Item=978074757411
            >)
            and from that it is clear she is referring to The Mouth of Sauron.

            From the interview:

            The Raven King had an odd genesis. Ursula Le
            Guin has a magician in the Earthsea trilogy
            who has no name: the Grey Mage of Paln, whose
            magic was so dubious, his name was forgotten. And
            there’s a magician in The Lord of the Rings, right
            at the very end, who comes out of Mordor to do
            battle against our heroes, and no one knows his
            name because he himself has forgotten it.

            From The Return of the King:

            The rider was robed all in black, and black
            was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith
            but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower
            of Barad-Dûr he was, and his name is remembered
            in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it,
            and he said: "I am the Mouth of Sauron."

            --
            ===[Joshua Ellis]===============[S-D-G]===============[-0.809016994]===
            josh@... -+- http://www.apostate.com/ -+- LJ:deteriorata
            | The truth is rarely pure and never simple. Modern life would be |
            | very tedious if it were either, and modern literature a complete |
            | impossibility! -- Oscar Wilde |
            Currently Reading "The Colour Out of Space" edited by D. Thin




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