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Galadriel

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  • Stolzi
    When she sings, What ship would ever bear me back? has she lost hope of ever returning to Valinor? Yet in the Mirror scene she says I will go into the
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 9, 2004
      When she sings, "What ship would ever bear me back?" has she lost hope of
      ever returning to Valinor? Yet in the Mirror scene she says "I will go into
      the West." And at the end she turns up headed for the West.

      Can somebody explain to me just how and when Galadriel is forgiven?

      Stupidly,
      Diamond Proudbrook
    • Joshua Kronengold
      ... I don t think it s a stupid question at all. I always got the impression that she believed she had been tested by the tempting of the ring (in the Mirror
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 9, 2004
        Stolzi writes:
        >When she sings, "What ship would ever bear me back?" has she lost hope of
        >ever returning to Valinor? Yet in the Mirror scene she says "I will go into
        >the West." And at the end she turns up headed for the West.
        >
        >Can somebody explain to me just how and when Galadriel is forgiven?

        I don't think it's a stupid question at all.

        I always got the impression that she believed she had been tested by
        the tempting of the ring (in the Mirror scene), and that, since she
        had passed, she would be allowed (and commanded) to return.

        It may be that "What ship would ever bear me back?" was at least as
        much hubris as despair, especially given "I will diminish, and go into
        the West, and remain Galadriel".



        --
        Joshua Kronengold (mneme@(io.com, labcats.org)) |\ _,,,--,,_ ,)
        --^-- "Get your mind right and you can make a stick /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
        /\\ your wand and the sky your hat and a puddle |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
        /-\\\ your magic..." -- Granny Weatherwax '---''(_/--' (_/-'
      • David Bratman
        What Galadriel says at the end of the Mirror scene is, I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel. The first sentence is
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 9, 2004
          What Galadriel says at the end of the Mirror scene is, "I pass the test. I
          will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."

          The first sentence is in present tense: it refers to what's going on right
          now. Her rejection of Frodo's offer, which is borne by the immediately
          previous sentence where she lets her hand fall, is clearly her passing of
          the test. The rest of her statement is in the future. Her question, "What
          ship would ever bear me back?", comes later, expressing doubt that she can
          actually do this. That the ship in fact goes later is dependent on too
          many things unforeseeable at the time Galadriel speaks.

          David Bratman
        • JP Massar
          ... Christopher Tolkien attempts to explain it: see near the beginning of The History of Galadriel and Celeborn in Unfinished Tales, wherein he discusses
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 9, 2004
            At 02:34 PM 8/9/2004, Stolzi wrote:
            >When she sings, "What ship would ever bear me back?" has she lost hope of
            >ever returning to Valinor? Yet in the Mirror scene she says "I will go into
            >the West." And at the end she turns up headed for the West.
            >
            >Can somebody explain to me just how and when Galadriel is forgiven?

            Christopher Tolkien attempts to explain it: see near the beginning of
            'The History of Galadriel and Celeborn' in Unfinished Tales, wherein he
            discusses different (somewhat at odds) passages in various texts that
            his father wrote at different times.
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