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Re: Daniel Keys Moran (WAS: Re: Laurel K. Hamilton)

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  • JTHeyman@juno.com
    ... I m a fan of Moran s work and have most of his books. Actually, while I agree that the book would ve been ruined if it had all been like that scene, that
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 17, 2004
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      "Elizabeth Apgar Triano" <lizziewriter@...> writes:
      > Daniel Keyes Moran writes some neat sf. In one of his books,
      > _The Last Dancer_, I believe, there is a very intense sex scene
      > around the middle somewhere. It may be the only sex scene,
      > certainly it is the only scene of its kind. It would have, IMO,
      > ruined the book if that had been the flavor throughout.

      I'm a fan of Moran's work and have most of his books. Actually, while I
      agree that the book would've been ruined if it had all been like that
      scene, that scene itself seemed to be out of place to me. Or, perhaps
      more accurately, the explicitness of that scene seemed out of place. I
      can see the emotional content of Denise's night with Lan, and I liked how
      the consequences or that night played out later just before Lan
      confronted Sedon, but could Moran have gotten the same impact without the
      explicitness? I think so. Then again, his stories have been published
      and I write fan fic, so maybe I'm wrong.

      The question of explicit sex in F&SF, though, seems to be more a matter
      of "how much" rather than "if" these days. Kim Stanley Robinson, talking
      about his Mars novels at a convention some years back, said it
      matter-of-factly: people colonize a new world, terraform it, set up
      governments and, along the way, some of them have sex. These days,
      unless you let someone else read and review books for you, ya pays yer
      money and ya takes yer chances.

      Or maybe that scene in _The Last Dancer_ was a result of pressure to
      include such a scene because so many other books were beginning to
      include them ... then again, maybe not. After all, his self-published
      _Terminal Freedom_ (cowritten with his sister) had no such explicit scene
      in it. Which raises an interesting question to which I don't have an
      answer: how much influence do the corporate publishers have over the
      content of various authors' books? Can they go to a mid-list (or even an
      A-list) author and say, "It's good, but it needs more sex"? And, if so,
      what does that mean for the mythopoeia of the author's world? Can the
      publisher alter it to be more in line with whatever ideas they have about
      what the readers want? I don't know, but I do wonder sometimes.

      ~ JTHeyman

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    • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 18, 2004
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        << Or maybe that scene in _The Last Dancer_ was a result of pressure to
        >include such a scene because so many other books were beginning to
        >include them ... then again, maybe not. After all, his self-published
        >_Terminal Freedom_ (cowritten with his sister) had no such explicit scene
        >in it. Which raises an interesting question to which I don't have an
        >answer: how much influence do the corporate publishers have over the
        >content of various authors' books? Can they go to a mid-list (or even an
        >A-list) author and say, "It's good, but it needs more sex"? And, if so,
        >what does that mean for the mythopoeia of the author's world? Can the
        >publisher alter it to be more in line with whatever ideas they have about
        >what the readers want? I don't know, but I do wonder sometimes.

        I do too. Nice to hear from another DKM fan, also I would love to see
        more discussion on this to read when we return. Wish I could think about
        it now.

        Keep it up.

        best,

        Lizzie

        Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        lizziewriter@...
        amor vincit omnia
        *** Do visit www.groups.yahoo.com/group/DollsandArts ***
      • karlstar2
        ... liked how ... without the ... talking ... scene ... even an ... about ... I think this position that sex has to be included because people do it is a bit
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 22, 2004
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          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, JTHeyman@j... wrote:
          > "Elizabeth Apgar Triano" <lizziewriter@e...> writes:
          > > Daniel Keyes Moran writes some neat sf. In one of his books,
          > > _The Last Dancer_, I believe, there is a very intense sex scene
          > > around the middle somewhere. It may be the only sex scene,
          > > certainly it is the only scene of its kind. It would have, IMO,
          > > ruined the book if that had been the flavor throughout.
          >
          > I'm a fan of Moran's work and have most of his books. Actually, while I
          > agree that the book would've been ruined if it had all been like that
          > scene, that scene itself seemed to be out of place to me. Or, perhaps
          > more accurately, the explicitness of that scene seemed out of place. I
          > can see the emotional content of Denise's night with Lan, and I
          liked how
          > the consequences or that night played out later just before Lan
          > confronted Sedon, but could Moran have gotten the same impact
          without the
          > explicitness? I think so. Then again, his stories have been published
          > and I write fan fic, so maybe I'm wrong.
          >
          > The question of explicit sex in F&SF, though, seems to be more a matter
          > of "how much" rather than "if" these days. Kim Stanley Robinson,
          talking
          > about his Mars novels at a convention some years back, said it
          > matter-of-factly: people colonize a new world, terraform it, set up
          > governments and, along the way, some of them have sex. These days,
          > unless you let someone else read and review books for you, ya pays yer
          > money and ya takes yer chances.
          >
          > Or maybe that scene in _The Last Dancer_ was a result of pressure to
          > include such a scene because so many other books were beginning to
          > include them ... then again, maybe not. After all, his self-published
          > _Terminal Freedom_ (cowritten with his sister) had no such explicit
          scene
          > in it. Which raises an interesting question to which I don't have an
          > answer: how much influence do the corporate publishers have over the
          > content of various authors' books? Can they go to a mid-list (or
          even an
          > A-list) author and say, "It's good, but it needs more sex"? And, if so,
          > what does that mean for the mythopoeia of the author's world? Can the
          > publisher alter it to be more in line with whatever ideas they have
          about
          > what the readers want? I don't know, but I do wonder sometimes.
          >
          > ~ JTHeyman

          I think this position that sex has to be included because people do it
          is a bit exaggerated. Is it much different than the old 'adventurers
          never go to the bathroom argument'? If the characters involved are in
          a romance, then yes, it is probably necessary. If there's no romance,
          then it isn't.

          Jim
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