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RE: [mythsoc] Tolkien the Medievalist

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  • David Bratman
    ... I thought Donovan was pretty good, though I didn t find it all that interesting and may have skimmed a bit. Also it was rather overshadowed by Chism s
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 7, 2004
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      At 02:05 PM 7/7/2004 -0500, Croft, Janet B. wrote:

      >Which ones didn't you like? My favorite was Leslie Donovan's "The
      >Valkyrie Reflex", which is already being cited in one of the essays on
      >Jackson's depictions of the female characters for the _Tolkien on Film_
      >book. I agree on the Fleiger (both of them) and Chism pieces. I also
      >liked Michael Maher's essay on Marian imagery in the depiction of
      >Galadriel, though it seems to me I have seen some of this material
      >elsewhere.

      I thought Donovan was pretty good, though I didn't find it all that
      interesting and may have skimmed a bit. Also it was rather overshadowed by
      Chism's work on the same source material, which dazzled me as any piercing
      insight into the nature of Tolkien's work does. Maher I found rather
      stiff, and unconvincing in his argument of the specific importance of a
      specific source. Flieger's wild-man essay I thought much better than the
      one on the folklore controversy, which seemed a little shallow. Doug
      Anderson's piece on E.V. Gordon was very good, but as a purely external
      historical study fits oddly with the rest of the book.

      The essays I didn't like at all were Margaret Sinex, who stumbles over the
      relationship between Tolkien's story and her designated source, and gets a
      crucial fact in the Tolkien wrong; and Mary Faraci, which was just total
      blither. Nor did I care for Andrew Lazo, who seemed to me to have no real
      feeling for his subject (Tolkien's friendship with C.S. Lewis) whatever.
      His essay on the Coalbiters in the new book, _Tolkien and the Invention of
      Myth_, is better as an essay, but his historical data is full of little
      jumps to the Island of Conclusions.

      (Lizzie - Verlyn Flieger is a professor at the University of Maryland and
      one of the best scholars on Tolkien around. Her books are not as easy a
      read as Tom Shippey's, but once you've gotten through _Splintered Light_ or
      _A Question of Time_, you've learned a lot about Tolkien. Of the two
      books, the former is more basic in its subject & approach, but the latter
      is the more amazing reading.)

      - David Bratman
    • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 7, 2004
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        << (Lizzie - Verlyn Flieger is a professor at the University of Maryland and
        one of the best scholars on Tolkien around. Her books are not as easy a
        read as Tom Shippey's, but once you've gotten through _Splintered Light_ or
        _A Question of Time_, you've learned a lot about Tolkien. Of the two
        books, the former is more basic in its subject & approach, but the latter
        is the more amazing reading.)

        - David Bratman >>

        Thank you, Mr. B. What with the "sightings" and all, I have been
        wondering. I'll add them to my reading list.

        best,

        Lizzie

        Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        lizziewriter@...
        amor vincit omnia
      • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        PS What about The Tolkien Fan s Medieval Reader ? thanks, Lizzie Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net amor vincit omnia
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 7, 2004
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          PS What about The Tolkien Fan's Medieval Reader ?

          thanks,

          Lizzie

          Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          lizziewriter@...
          amor vincit omnia
        • Croft, Janet B.
          Well, since I don t have any sticky notes stuck in the Faraci or Lazo essays, and only one in the notes for the Sinex essay (and that to a reference to someone
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 7, 2004
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            Well, since I don't have any sticky notes stuck in the Faraci or Lazo
            essays, and only one in the notes for the Sinex essay (and that to a
            reference to someone else's article), they mustn't have made much
            impression on me, either... And perhaps it was my unfamiliarity with
            medieval literature which made the Donovan essay such a stand-out to me
            -- those who already know a lot about the valkyrie image would probably
            find it kind of obvious. But I still like it.

            Janet

            -----Original Message-----
            From: David Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 2:53 PM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [mythsoc] Tolkien the Medievalist

            At 02:05 PM 7/7/2004 -0500, Croft, Janet B. wrote:

            The essays I didn't like at all were Margaret Sinex, who stumbles over
            the
            relationship between Tolkien's story and her designated source, and gets
            a
            crucial fact in the Tolkien wrong; and Mary Faraci, which was just total
            blither. Nor did I care for Andrew Lazo, who seemed to me to have no
            real
            feeling for his subject (Tolkien's friendship with C.S. Lewis) whatever.
            His essay on the Coalbiters in the new book, _Tolkien and the Invention
            of
            Myth_, is better as an essay, but his historical data is full of little
            jumps to the Island of Conclusions.


            - David Bratman




            The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
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          • David Bratman
            ... Well, I think Green Man would like to review this book. They d conclude that medieval literature was really boring. - David Bratman
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 7, 2004
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              At 03:59 PM 7/7/2004 -0400, Lizzie wrote:
              >PS What about The Tolkien Fan's Medieval Reader ?

              Well, I think Green Man would like to review this book. They'd conclude
              that medieval literature was really boring.

              - David Bratman
            • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
              ... Well, I think Green Man would like to review this book. They d conclude that medieval literature was really boring. - David Bratman Uhh.... OK. But it
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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                >PS What about The Tolkien Fan's Medieval Reader ?

                Well, I think Green Man would like to review this book. They'd conclude
                that medieval literature was really boring.

                - David Bratman >>


                Uhh.... OK. But it wasn't. You don't mean the Reader is boring... are
                you being funny?

                I hate to miss a joke here.

                Lizzie

                Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                lizziewriter@...
                amor vincit omnia
              • David Bratman
                The joke was that Green Man seems to attract reviewers who are easily bored, since they boast of it in their reviews. The serious part was that I believe that
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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                  The joke was that Green Man seems to attract reviewers who are easily
                  bored, since they boast of it in their reviews.

                  The serious part was that I believe that _The Tolkien Fan's Medieval
                  Reader_, because it uses old-fashioned translations that are no longer
                  idiomatic, and because most of the pieces are poetry translated as prose
                  (which I consider a mistake in literary, as opposed to scholarly,
                  translation), is liable to bore readers who are easily bored.

                  - David Bratman


                  At 08:24 AM 7/8/2004 -0400, Lizzie wrote:
                  >>PS What about The Tolkien Fan's Medieval Reader ?
                  >
                  >Well, I think Green Man would like to review this book. They'd conclude
                  >that medieval literature was really boring.
                  >
                  >- David Bratman >>
                  >
                  >
                  >Uhh.... OK. But it wasn't. You don't mean the Reader is boring... are
                  >you being funny?
                  >
                  >I hate to miss a joke here.
                  >
                  >Lizzie
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