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Re: [mythsoc] Claims of expertise (was Re: Newest Greenman Review)

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  • Margaret Dean
    ... From my days in the publishing industry I also recall that Anne McCaffrey was extremely generous in the handing out of encomiums to put on book covers.
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 5, 2004
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      Berni Phillips wrote:

      > "Best book I've read all year!" -- Marion Zimmer Bradley ---> seen on
      > so many books it's become a catch phrase in the Bratman household.

      From my days in the publishing industry I also recall that Anne
      McCaffrey was extremely generous in the handing out of encomiums
      to put on book covers.


      --Margaret Dean
      <margdean@...>
    • David Bratman
      At 01:09 PM 7/7/2004 -0500, Patrick Wynne wrote ... Oh yeah, and it s got that linguistic (and Middle-earth historical) stuff in the back, too. - David Bratman
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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        At 01:09 PM 7/7/2004 -0500, Patrick Wynne wrote ...

        Oh yeah, and it's got that linguistic (and Middle-earth historical) stuff
        in the back, too.

        - David Bratman
      • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        Who is Verlyn Flieger? thanks Lizzie Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net amor vincit omnia
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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          Who is Verlyn Flieger?

          thanks

          Lizzie

          Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          lizziewriter@...
          amor vincit omnia
        • Anne Petty
          ...why not review it for its usefulness at swatting flies? As such, _Road Goes Ever On_, a lightweight tome with a big flat surface, is very useful indeed.
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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            "...why not review it for its usefulness at swatting flies? As such,
            _Road Goes Ever On_, a lightweight tome with a big flat surface, is
            very useful indeed."

            > - David Bratman

            David, you absolutely stop me in my tracks sometimes - thanks for
            giving me my first howling laugh of the day!

            Anne Petty
            acp@...
          • Michael Martinez
            ... [snipping to get to the point] ... I don t agree. It is an expression of opinion, or preference. It is also an endorsement, but anyone is free to endorse
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, David Bratman <dbratman@e...> wrote:
              > At 06:52 AM 7/7/2004 -0400, Jack wrote:
              >
              > >Grey never claimed to be a Tolkien expert, just a fan.
              >
              > On the contrary.

              [snipping to get to the point]

              > But Walker didn't say that. Walker said, "If you only have one
              > reference book on Tolkien on your shelf, it ought to be this one."
              >
              > That IS a claim of being a Tolkien expert. It states that the
              > writer has a thorough knowledge and has made a considered judgment
              > of the entire field.

              I don't agree. It is an expression of opinion, or preference. It is
              also an endorsement, but anyone is free to endorse anything. Idiots
              and fools make endorsements on every topic every day. Experts do,
              too. In almost any given field of study, you pretty much have to be
              or become an expert in order to weed out the informed (unsupported)
              opinions from the uninformed ones (regardless of whether the latter
              offer support).
            • Michael Martinez
              ... It is a very good resource for the study of the mythological world itself, not simply the linguistics. There are historical and cultural details in this
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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                --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Wynne <pwynne@g...> wrote:
                > On Jul 7, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Jack wrote, assessing the value of
                > _The Road Goes Ever On_:
                >
                > > Not everything Tolkien wrote is interesting. This work is a bit of a
                > > minor
                > > fluff.
                >
                > The first sentence is a matter of taste; the latter sentence is a bit
                > of major nonsense.
                >
                > The scholarly value of Tolkien's linguistic commentaries on
                > _Namárië_ and _A Elbereth Gilthoniel_ included at the end
                > of RGEO is well known to anybody who has delved into the
                > serious study of Tolkien's invented languages. There is much
                > information here that is found nowhere else, and RGEO is a
                > major text that is regularly cited in linguistic analyses. I should
                > know; I've written a lot of them myself.

                It is a very good resource for the study of the mythological world
                itself, not simply the linguistics. There are historical and cultural
                details in this book which are found nowhere else.

                So, I would strongly agree that THE ROAD GOES EVER ON is anything but
                fluff.
              • Berni Phillips
                From: David Bratman ... I don t know who this Jack Merry is (I read the review, too), but if he s bored by sheet music, he s no
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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                  From: "David Bratman" <dbratman@...>
                  >
                  > And Jack Merry, reviewer of Swann's _The Road Goes Ever On_, is bored
                  > by sheet music. Spare me from the easily bored, or at least spare me from
                  > reviews about how easily bored they get.

                  I don't know who this Jack Merry is (I read the review, too), but if he's
                  bored by sheet music, he's no musician! I would much rather have a copy of
                  the sheet music than recorded music. I find it quite helpful not to have
                  someone else's interpretation (many of which I dislike anyway) of music. I
                  much prefer the source.

                  Berni
                • Berni Phillips
                  From: Jack ... Music ... David s not but I am. But you re talking about traditional folk music and _The Road Goes Ever On_ is
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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                    From: "Jack" <jack@...>

                    > David, are you a fiddler? Most fiddlers including myself do not find sheet
                    > music all that exciting. If we did, than such tunes as Simon Jeffe's
                    'Music
                    > for a Found Harmonium' would never ahve come to be considered traditional
                    > by Irish musicians!

                    David's not but I am. But you're talking about traditional folk music and
                    _The Road Goes Ever On_ is *art song*, a whole other genre of music.

                    It's more like Shubert -- you must look at the original source, both text
                    and music. See how the composer set it. In art song, the piano and voice
                    are partners -- Schubert was really the first to make them equal partners in
                    his lieder. Listen to his "Gretchen am Spinnrade" and you can hear the
                    piano filling in the emotional moods in places where the text has broken.
                    After the singer sings about his kiss, the spinning wheel accompaniment of
                    the piano stops and makes a few tentative starts, unable to get back to
                    business, as it were. After a few measures, both singer and piano are back
                    on the main theme. This is the tradition which Swann is working in.

                    Berni

                    P.S. "Erlkoenig" is very mythopoeic, too.
                  • Berni Phillips
                    From: Michael Martinez ... Best book I ve read all year! -- Marion Zimmer Bradley --- seen on so many books it s become a catch
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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                      From: "Michael Martinez" <Michaelm@...>
                      >
                      > It is also an endorsement, but anyone is free to endorse anything. Idiots
                      > and fools make endorsements on every topic every day. Experts do,
                      > too. In almost any given field of study, you pretty much have to be
                      > or become an expert in order to weed out the informed (unsupported)
                      > opinions from the uninformed ones (regardless of whether the latter
                      > offer support).

                      "Best book I've read all year!" -- Marion Zimmer Bradley ---> seen on so
                      many books it's become a catch phrase in the Bratman household.

                      Berni
                    • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                      A wonderful writer and scholar on the Inklings. The work I know of hers best is *Splintered Light: Logos and Light in Tolkien s World.* It s published by
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 7, 2004
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                        A wonderful writer and scholar on the Inklings. The work I know of hers
                        best is *Splintered Light: Logos and Light in Tolkien's World.* It's
                        published by Eerdman's in Grand Rapids, MI. An Amazon search may net you
                        some of her later work.

                        Original Message:
                        -----------------
                        From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@...
                        Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 14:41:05 -0400
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Newest Greenman Review


                        Who is Verlyn Flieger?

                        thanks

                        Lizzie

                        Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                        lizziewriter@...
                        amor vincit omnia






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