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Just got the joke!

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  • Leelan
    I was watching The Return of the King yesterday and it hit me! It is the scene near the end when the hobbits are having a quiet drink at The Green Dragon
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 7, 2004
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      I was watching "The Return of the King" yesterday and it hit me! It is
      the scene near the end when the hobbits are having a quiet drink at
      "The Green Dragon" just before Sam gets up to propose to Rosie Cotton.

      Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pip look at each other and those around them and
      are extremely aware of the gulf that separates them from their
      community. Their shared experiences in the War of the Ring that those
      around them can't understand.

      I saw this and remembered an expression that I have heard in
      connection with soldiers who have come home from the War and what sets
      them apart.
      They have "seen the elephant" and are forever changed. No one can
      understand what they have seen unless they had seen it themselves.

      This hit me while watching Peter Jackson's hobbits. How can they go
      back to the way things were after what they had seen and done? They
      can't. They had "seen the elephant" and could not forget.

      But in this case, these hobbits have "seen the oliphaunt"!

      -Leelan Lampkins
    • Paul Labaki
      ... gulf that separates them from their community. I think only Frodo has been set apart in this way, even though Sam, too, was a Ringbearer. All four are
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 8, 2004
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        --- Leelan <modeltsar@...> wrote:

        >
        > Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pip look at each other and
        > those around them and are extremely aware of the
        gulf that separates them from their community.

        I think only Frodo has been set apart in this way,
        even though Sam, too, was a Ringbearer. All four are
        immediately welcomed back by their fellow hobbits, and
        are the leaders in the scouring of the Shire.
        Eventually, Sam is Mayor, Pippin the Thain and Merry
        the Master of Buckland. Frodo, who sacrificed most,
        was the one who had to give up the Shire so that it
        was saved for others, including Sam, Pippin and Merry,
        all their hobbit relations and the Bracegirdles,
        Boffins etc.

        > How can they go back to the way things were >after
        what they had seen and done?

        It's possible for them because they are hobbits. Most
        likely men and women wouldn't respond this way, for
        the most part, but hobbits differ from us big people.


        Also, they did not go back to the way things were.
        They arrived home to an unexpected horror, Sauron's
        touch felt in the Shire itself. As best they could,
        they took action to put things back the way they had
        been before the War of the Ring.

        >They can't. They had "seen the elephant" and >could
        not forget.

        Perhaps they could not forget, but experience is part
        of personal growth. They grew and changed, but not
        even Frodo lost his essence, his self, his hobbitness,
        his soul.



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      • darancgrissom@sbcglobal.net
        I think that the movie was the principal example in the original post. And yes I love that scene in The Dragon where the four greatest heroes in all the Shire
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 9, 2004
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          I think that the movie was the principal example in the original post. And
          yes I love that scene in The Dragon where the four greatest heroes in all
          the Shire are sitting at one table and everone else....Is impressed by a guy
          who grew a really big pumpkin. A big pumpkin is just not as impressive
          after you've deen an oliphant
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Paul Labaki [mailto:pflabaki2@...]
          Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:35 PM
          To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Just got the joke!


          --- Leelan <modeltsar@...> wrote:

          >
          > Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pip look at each other and
          > those around them and are extremely aware of the
          gulf that separates them from their community.

          I think only Frodo has been set apart in this way,
          even though Sam, too, was a Ringbearer. All four are
          immediately welcomed back by their fellow hobbits, and
          are the leaders in the scouring of the Shire.
          Eventually, Sam is Mayor, Pippin the Thain and Merry
          the Master of Buckland. Frodo, who sacrificed most,
          was the one who had to give up the Shire so that it
          was saved for others, including Sam, Pippin and Merry,
          all their hobbit relations and the Bracegirdles,
          Boffins etc.

          > How can they go back to the way things were >after
          what they had seen and done?

          It's possible for them because they are hobbits. Most
          likely men and women wouldn't respond this way, for
          the most part, but hobbits differ from us big people.


          Also, they did not go back to the way things were.
          They arrived home to an unexpected horror, Sauron's
          touch felt in the Shire itself. As best they could,
          they took action to put things back the way they had
          been before the War of the Ring.

          >They can't. They had "seen the elephant" and >could
          not forget.

          Perhaps they could not forget, but experience is part
          of personal growth. They grew and changed, but not
          even Frodo lost his essence, his self, his hobbitness,
          his soul.



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        • Leelan
          ... Yes. You got it in one! I was thinking of the movie more than the book. Forgot about that pumpkin though. There is no parallel scene in the book. Might
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 9, 2004
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            --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, <darancgrissom@s...> wrote:
            > I think that the movie was the principal example in the original post.

            Yes. You got it in one!

            I was thinking of the movie more than the book. Forgot about that
            pumpkin though. There is no parallel scene in the book. Might have
            "happened" one day but Tolkein never mentions it.

            As I say in another post, I like the book and the movie equally well.
            One seems to enhance the other.

            But as for the stay-at-homes, even the cleansing of the Shire does not
            stack up to what happens to you in Mordor or in the field of Pellinor.
            I doubt that they could ever comprehend what happened to Frodo, Sam,
            Merry or Pip. Tolkien says that they never understood what happened to
            Bilbo!

            -Leelan
          • Stolzi
            Good point, Leelan. About Bilbo. Diamond Proudbrook ... From: Leelan I doubt that they could ever comprehend what happened to Frodo, Sam, Merry or Pip.
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 9, 2004
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              Good point, Leelan. About Bilbo.

              Diamond Proudbrook
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Leelan

              I doubt that they could ever comprehend what happened to Frodo, Sam,
              Merry or Pip. Tolkien says that they never understood what happened to
              Bilbo!



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