Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[mythsoc] Green men (Re: Mythago Wood )

Expand Messages
  • dianejoy@earthlink.net
    ... From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:34:41 -0400 To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Mythago Wood RE:
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 4, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Original Message:
      -----------------
      From: Elizabeth Apgar Triano lizziewriter@...
      Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:34:41 -0400
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: Mythago Wood RE: [mythsoc] Stewardship vs Dominion and
      otherlanguagequestions


      I must have missed something--but "nature guardians" in contemporary
      fantasy? I can think of a couple depending on what you mean by contemporary.
      >>

      Authors still living, or living into the 1960s or so? That work for
      people? I know there are many. Specifics elude me, and of course my books
      are still in boxes. I can get to them now, at least, mostly. But it's not
      the same as having them on shelves to scan. Whine, whine.

      Maybe I will have to dig later, when I find something to occupy the kids.
      Four days, no school, whee.


      But Robert Jordan (UGH!!!!!!!) in the first book mimics Tolkien with a
      "Green Man" in the north. And Stephen Donaldson's forestals. These are both
      now over 10 years old. I can think of some others from the 70s, but that
      would probably be stretching contemporary a bit. >>

      << lol I like a person with an opinion. Why don't you like Robert Jordan?
      lol I haven't read any of his work yet myself. Donaldson's forestals are
      in what? The UrLord books, whatever they are called again? It's been a
      long time since I've read them, and even if more are coming out I'm not
      rushing to reread them.>>

      Robert Jordan is simply incapable of deciding what he should leave out. He
      brings in EVERYTHING. Terry Goodkind may be just as bad, but I really
      haven't read him carefully. Though I note that TG's books are a bit
      shorter these days. *Stone of Tears* looks like it could have been two
      books; even in paper, it looks like a door stopper. I always say (when
      discussing Jordan) that Tolkien had his hobbits leaving the Shire on their
      quest by chapter 3 (or 4) if memory serves. Jordan had them wait until
      chapter 10. I think that about sums it up.

      <<I don't see that having a Green Man is mimicking Tolkien, unless the
      details pan out to be like Tom Bombadil. In fact, it almost seems to me
      that Tolkien went to some pains to have Bombadil, consciously or not, NOT
      be a vegetation deity. He's a real character, Bombadil is. Or did you
      mean Fangorn? Either way, I see them as different from generic Green Men,
      but I could be completely wrong. It's happened.>>

      Is Fangorn an actual *character* [always thought of it as something less]
      or are you thinking of Old Man Willow? (Maybe they're the same?) Please
      forgive my memorial lacunae.

      As for Green Men and Bombadil, Treebeard and his like make me think more of
      Green Men, and I've always looked at those leafy faces and seen them as
      capable of being very angry folk. I sure wouldn't want to cross one. But
      they are not *always* angry; JRRT struck the right balance as he usually
      does. Bombadil seems like a Land Lord (in the best sense of the word): he
      takes care of his lands diligently, and those who come into his purview,
      while they are in his purview; after they leave, he's forgotten them
      already. Gandalf is right; he'd forget the Ring and it would find someone
      else to do its evil work. Butterbur (in his careless way) is something of
      an urban counterpart, but Bombadil is not careless for a moment, and
      Butterbur is entirely prosaic, while TB is not. ---djb




      The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      Yahoo! Groups Links






      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      mail2web - Check your email from the web at
      http://mail2web.com/ .
    • WendellWag@aol.com
      Could people please, please be more careful in distinguishing between what they are quoting and what they are saying themselves in their posts? In Diane
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 4, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Could people please, please be more careful in distinguishing between what
        they are quoting and what they are saying themselves in their posts? In Diane
        Baker's last post (in reply to Lizzie Triano) I was completely lost as to who
        was saying what. Both Lizzie and Diane have quoting styles that tend to drop
        the distinctions between what is quoted and what is said. When they reply to
        each other several times this means that there are several levels of quotation
        which gets totally hopeless to interpret. And what's this business of italics
        suddently appearing in a post for no reason? Look, I know that you people
        don't want to have to spend a lot of time on reformatting a post, but when you
        don't do so, it's really hard to read. You people have a lot of interesting
        points to make and I would really like to understand them. Please, please,
        please take a little more time to reformat your posts so that it's clear what
        you're quoting.

        Wendell Wagner


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        OK, I guess we all need to shore up the definition of Green Men. I think of them as a vegetation symbol, more a fertility thing and impersonal. Like those
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 4, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          OK, I guess we all need to shore up the definition of Green Men. I think
          of them as a vegetation symbol, more a fertility thing and impersonal.
          Like those leaf-faces with leaf-tongues carved over doorways and stuff.

          Sorry about the muckiness, Wendell and anyone else. I will try to be
          neater with this post. Sheesh, can't get away with anything around here...


          Diane paused to doublecheck:

          << Is Fangorn an actual *character* [always thought of it as something less]
          or are you thinking of Old Man Willow? (Maybe they're the same?) Please
          forgive my memorial lacunae. >>

          Happens to all of us.

          Fangorn (Treebeard) is oh Definitely a character. He's that hoom-hom guy
          in charge of Mirkwood.

          I had forgotten about Old Man Willow, the grouchy old tree. I wouldn't
          call him exactly a character, more like a Whomping Willow, something that's
          alive and dangerous but not much into dialogue.


          << As for Green Men and Bombadil, Treebeard and his like make me think more
          of
          Green Men, and I've always looked at those leafy faces and seen them as
          capable of being very angry folk. I sure wouldn't want to cross one. But
          they are not *always* angry; JRRT struck the right balance as he usually
          does. Bombadil seems like a Land Lord (in the best sense of the word): he
          takes care of his lands diligently, and those who come into his purview,
          while they are in his purview; after they leave, he's forgotten them
          already. Gandalf is right; he'd forget the Ring and it would find someone
          else to do its evil work. Butterbur (in his careless way) is something of
          an urban counterpart, but Bombadil is not careless for a moment, and
          Butterbur is entirely prosaic, while TB is not. ---djb >>

          All too true.

          I suppose Treebeard/Fangorn is technically a Green Guy anyway. And angry,
          sure, they demonstrated what they can do.

          I guess I still think of Green Man more as fertility/vegetation/seasonal.
          The Ents are somehow more than that.

          Bombadil is a focused sovereign indeed.

          Good morning, all,

          Lizzie

          Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          lizziewriter@...
          amor vincit omnia
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.