Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [mythsoc] is genome stuff OT?

Expand Messages
  • Steve Schaper
    ... Genetically, though it seems that the Romano-Brits stayed put, sometimes as thralls, and from such items as the Doomsday book, in villages under Angle
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 6, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      At 4:36 PM -0600 3/6/00, Ted Sherman wrote:
      >
      >as either Lewis or Tolkien.) It used to be thought that the reason there
      >are so few truly Celtic words in the English language was because the
      >Roman, and later Germanic invaders (read Angles, Saxons, and Jutes of
      >Bede's History), slaughtered them in their invasions. Now it is thought
      >by many philologists/historical linguists that the Celts simply moved
      >west & north into the highlands of Wales and Scotland (as well as south
      >across the channel to Brittany). We know they did move in these
      >directions from the archaeological evidence, and it seems likely that
      >this is the reason so few Celtic words there are in English. (Obviously,
      >the closer you get to Wales, Scottish highlands, Cornwall, and Brittany,
      >the more likely you are to find words that derive from the Celtic
      >languages [whether insular or continental Celtic].)

      Genetically, though it seems that the Romano-Brits stayed put,
      sometimes as thralls, and from such items as the Doomsday book, in
      villages under Angle lordship. Why their language was replaced I
      don't know, but they seem to have had a real presence and identity up
      through the early Norman period, throughout much of England.

      ====================================
      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
      sschaper@...
      members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
      ====================================
    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 3/6/00 6:43:02 PM Central Standard Time, ERATRIANO@aol.com ... Fenestra. If someone offers to defenestrate you, don t accept.
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 6, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 3/6/00 6:43:02 PM Central Standard Time, ERATRIANO@...
        writes:

        > What is the Latin for "window"?

        Fenestra.

        If someone offers to defenestrate you, don't accept.
      • Steve Schaper
        ... What year -was- the Defenestration of Prague? ==================================== Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? sschaper@uswest.net
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 6, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          At 10:34 PM -0500 3/6/00, Stolzi@... wrote:
          >From: Stolzi@...
          >
          >In a message dated 3/6/00 6:43:02 PM Central Standard Time, ERATRIANO@...
          >writes:
          >
          >> What is the Latin for "window"?
          >
          >Fenestra.
          >
          >If someone offers to defenestrate you, don't accept.


          What year -was- the Defenestration of Prague?

          ====================================
          Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
          sschaper@...
          members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
          ====================================
        • WendellWag@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/6/00 7:42:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, ERATRIANO@aol.com ... Let me make some suggestions if you want to learn some new things about the
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 7, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 3/6/00 7:42:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, ERATRIANO@...
            writes:

            > I don't know as much linguistic stuff as I'd like to.

            Let me make some suggestions if you want to learn some new things about the
            interactions of the Celts and others in Britain, particularly as related to
            language. First, don't worry very much about articles and reviews in
            newspapers, even in something as reliable as _The New York Times_. These
            articles are about new and somewhat controversial discoveries. These ideas
            might turn out to be correct, but they might get knocked down in the next
            paper on the subject. It would be more efficient to learn about the subject
            from a book than from a meandering discussion on a mailing list. Why not
            start with a good, recent history of the Celts (um, actually, I need to read
            one of these) and then a good, recent history of the English language?

            If you don't know much about linguistic matters, you might want to read a
            good introductory book about linguistics. Get one that concentrates on the
            ideas of what a language is, the idea of language and dialect, how languages
            change, etc., rather than on picky details of generative grammar. Perhaps
            you already know this stuff, but I'm frequently surprised to find
            intelligent, well-read people who don't know anything about linguistics.

            Wendell Wagner
          • LSolarion@aol.com
            In a message dated 03/06/2000 5:57:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, sschaper@USWEST.NET writes:
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 7, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 03/06/2000 5:57:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
              sschaper@... writes:

              << Why their language was replaced I
              don't know, but they seem to have had a real presence and identity up
              through the early Norman period, throughout much of England.
              >>

              Perhaps for the same reason so many American Indians speak English: their
              native language was forbidden. To conquer a people, you must conquer their
              culture, and you cannot do that without replacing their language with your
              own. But this is just a guess.

              As an aside, I emerge out of lurkerhood and introduce myself. I have been a
              fantasy fan for many years, and especially enjoy Tolkien, Lewis, and Charles
              Williams (as well as E.R. Eddison and George R.R. Martin, and recently, Harry
              Potter). In fact, I find in their fantasies more truth than in the so-called
              real world (that is, the "world" in the Biblical sense). So this list is a
              gift I am thankful for, and I look forward to many more stimulating
              discussions.

              LSolarion
            • Steve Schaper
              ... The problem with that is that the population of the indigenes here is miniscule compared to the majority. It seems that Romano-British may have survived
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 7, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                At 8:37 AM -0500 3/7/00, LSolarion@... wrote:
                >From: LSolarion@...
                >
                >In a message dated 03/06/2000 5:57:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                >sschaper@... writes:
                >
                ><< Why their language was replaced I
                > don't know, but they seem to have had a real presence and identity up
                > through the early Norman period, throughout much of England.
                > >>
                >
                >Perhaps for the same reason so many American Indians speak English: their
                >native language was forbidden. To conquer a people, you must conquer their
                >culture, and you cannot do that without replacing their language with your
                >own. But this is just a guess.


                The problem with that is that the population of the indigenes here is
                miniscule compared to the majority. It seems that Romano-British may
                have survived into the early Norman period in Enland. Certainly
                villages identified by their Angle neighbors as such did so.

                ====================================
                Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
                sschaper@...
                members.delphi.com/sschaper/web/sschaper.html
                ====================================
              • ERATRIANO@aol.com
                In a message dated 03/07/2000 8:20:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, WendellWag@aol.com writes:
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 7, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 03/07/2000 8:20:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  WendellWag@... writes:

                  << Why not
                  start with a good, recent history of the Celts (um, actually, I need to read
                  one of these) and then a good, recent history of the English language? >>
                  Okay so you and I both need a title for the first, and I need a title for the
                  second. Anyone have some recommendations? I often fall asleep reading
                  nonfiction, by the way.

                  Lizzie
                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  Mario Pei wrote some good popular books about linguistics, as I recall, but they re some decades old now... Mary S
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 7, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mario Pei wrote some good popular books about linguistics, as I recall, but
                    they're some decades old now...

                    Mary S
                  • Paul F. Labaki
                    Several years ago I tried Eddison, I really tried to read him, and enjoy his work. After all, it comes with some good recommendations. This was my second
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 7, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Several years ago I tried Eddison, I really tried to read him, and enjoy his
                      work. After all, it comes with some good recommendations. This was my
                      second serious attempt, having tried once about four years before that.

                      Please, someone tell me why I should try again -- assuming I should -- and
                      what particular elements of his storytelling and of his writing are worth
                      what appears to me to be quite considerable effort?

                      I had a lot of fun hunting down cheap paperback copies of his work in
                      bookstores all over the east, but now I just have a lot of occupied shelf
                      space that preserves them as museum pieces in my fantasy collection. The
                      biggest problem is the curator is, in this case, an ignoramus. I apologize,
                      I just felt like writing the word ignoramus.

                      Peace,
                      Paul Labaki

                      > From: LSolarion@...
                      > Reply-To: mythsoc@onelist.com
                      > Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:37:22 EST
                      > To: mythsoc@onelist.com
                      > Subject: Re: [mythsoc] is genome stuff OT?
                      >
                      > From: LSolarion@...
                      >
                      > In a message dated 03/06/2000 5:57:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                      > sschaper@... writes:
                      >
                      > << Why their language was replaced I
                      > don't know, but they seem to have had a real presence and identity up
                      > through the early Norman period, throughout much of England.
                      >>>
                      >
                      > Perhaps for the same reason so many American Indians speak English: their
                      > native language was forbidden. To conquer a people, you must conquer their
                      > culture, and you cannot do that without replacing their language with your
                      > own. But this is just a guess.
                      >
                      > As an aside, I emerge out of lurkerhood and introduce myself. I have been a
                      > fantasy fan for many years, and especially enjoy Tolkien, Lewis, and Charles
                      > Williams (as well as E.R. Eddison and George R.R. Martin, and recently, Harry
                      > Potter). In fact, I find in their fantasies more truth than in the so-called
                      > real world (that is, the "world" in the Biblical sense). So this list is a
                      > gift I am thankful for, and I look forward to many more stimulating
                      > discussions.
                      >
                      > LSolarion
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
                      > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
                      > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
                      > Apply NOW!
                      > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/505012/_/952436249/
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                      >
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.