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Re: [mythsoc] Crossdressing heroines and other things that remain

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  • dianejoy@earthlink.net
    WOW! I m impressed; we could use her help in the war on terrorism. What a terrific lady! I always admired Boudicea, but this woman makes even the Celtic
    Message 1 of 17 , May 7, 2004
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      WOW! I'm impressed; we could use her help in the war on terrorism. What
      a terrific lady! I always admired Boudicea, but this woman makes even the
      Celtic Redhead look like a wimp. (Maybe Condaleeza Rice knows about her?
      Could be!) ---djb

      Original Message:
      -----------------
      From: Stolzi Stolzi@...
      Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:32:15 -0500
      To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Crossdressing heroines and other things that remain


      i received the material below on a religious List. At the end of the
      fourth para, we see another woman leading troops in battle. Though it
      doesn't say what she was wearing at the time.

      The prophetess Deborah in the book of JUDGES (4th chapter) in the Bible,
      and her terrific "song" in Ch. 5, is another example of courage and
      leadership. And Jael in the same chapter is an example of... something (!)

      ======================================================
      Today, on May 1, the Church honors the holy memory of Saint Tamar
      of Georgia (around 1160-1213), a queen who demonstrated the
      spiritual strength of womanhood as a heroine of faith and virtue.

      Tamar was a descendant of the ancient Bagration dynasty that long
      ruled Georgia, an orthodox Christian country in the Caucasus
      Mountains between Europe and Asia. Born around 1160, she became
      co-ruler with her father, King George III, in 1178. She ruled in
      her own right as monarch after the death of her father in 1184.
      In 1185, she was wed in an arranged marriage to a Russian prince,
      George Bogolyubskiy. But the marriage, which ended up being
      childlessness, ended with the prince's banishment when he involved
      himself in court intrigues and stirred up unrest in Georgia. She
      then married a husband of her own choosing, the Georgian prince
      David Soslan (who proved to be a more faithful consort), in 1188.

      Tamar's reign (1184-1213) went down in history as being Georgia's
      "golden age." A woman of true faith and virtue, she took her
      God-given stewardship of government very seriously, in the spirit
      of Saint Paul the Apostle's teachings (Romans 13:1-7). She
      followed in the footsteps of her royal grandfather, King David III
      (nicknamed the "Builder" or "Restorer," also a saint of the
      Church), building on his initiative to make religion, education
      and culture vibrant forces binding together all Georgians. To
      this end, she sponsored the building of numerous churches,
      monastic communities and schools, where orthodox Christian culture
      was taught and developed. She also convened a council of Georgian
      bishops to set church life in Georgia aright and put it in good
      order.

      Tamar's efforts in this area were not just the expected actions of
      a "typical" medieval monarch. Georgia was surrounded by hostile
      Muslims bent on destroying its orthodox Christian heritage and
      forcing it to convert to Islam. Tamar worked hard to make sure
      that heritage survived and did not fall prey to heterodox enemies.
      When Muslim neighbors demanded that she submit to their rule and
      embrace Islam instead of orthodox Christianity, she took charge of
      her country's military forces herself -- a rather unusual thing in
      a day and age when women were considered weaker and less suited
      for military service than men. Believing it was her duty, as sole
      monarch, to share in the defense of her homeland and the hardships
      of her soldiers, she led them in combat herself. Under her
      leadership, the Georgians scored key defeats over the larger
      forces of Muslim Azerbaijanis and Seljuk Turks in 1193, 1195,
      1203, 1204 and 1206, ensuring the survival of orthodox Christian
      civilization in the region.

      Under Tamar's rule, Georgia reached a historic height as a
      regional power and experienced a major flowering in education and
      culture. A famous Georgian poet of the time, Shota Rustaveli,
      commemorated her queenship in his poem "The Knight in the
      Panther's Skin," an epic of Georgian literature. Because of her
      wise, just rule in peacetime and her bravery on the battlefield,
      her subjects addressed her as "king" as well as "queen." In fact,
      they called her "the king of kings and queen of queens" out of
      love for her. She has gone down in Georgian history as "Tamar the
      Great."

      Tamar spent the final years of her life at Georgia's Bardzia Cave
      Monastery. She lived in a humble nun's cell connected to the
      church by a window, so she could hear and pray along with the
      worship services offered there throughout the day. After a
      lifetime of service to her Church and her people, she peacefully
      fell asleep in the Lord there in 1213. After her death, her name
      was added to the calendar of saints by the Church, due to her
      personal example of heroic faith and virtue, as well as the
      people's veneration of her.

      Tamar's name (and its different forms, such as Tamara, Tamra or
      Thamar) comes from the Old Testament of the Bible. In its
      original Hebrew, it means "date palm tree." By dint of her faith
      and virtue in seeking and following God's will, Tamar lived up to
      her name in line with the words of Psalm 91:11-13 (Septuagint
      numbering): "The righteous will flourish like a palm tree... Those
      planted in the house of the Lord will blossom forth in the courts
      of our God."


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      Yahoo! Groups Links






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    • Stolzi
      I d love to read The Knight in the Panther s Skin, the poem about Queen Tamara, but it doesn t seem to be available on the Web. One could also mention
      Message 2 of 17 , May 7, 2004
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        I'd love to read "The Knight in the Panther's Skin," the poem about Queen
        Tamara, but it doesn't seem to
        be available on the Web.

        One could also mention Cecelia Holland's novel THE ANGEL AND THE SWORD which
        supposedly comes from a tale of a Spanish princess who fought disguised as a
        knight in the days of the Viking invasions of Europe. i reviewed it a year
        or two back for MYTHPRINT.


        Diamond Proudbrook
      • alexeik@aol.com
        In a message dated 5/7/4 7:32:27 PM, Diamond wrote:
        Message 3 of 17 , May 7, 2004
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          In a message dated 5/7/4 7:32:27 PM, Diamond wrote:

          <<I'd love to read "The Knight in the Panther's Skin," the poem about Queen

          Tamara, but it doesn't seem to

          be available on the Web.

          >>

          It's really more about the hero of the title than about Queen Tamara,
          although it's supposed to take place during her reign. My main recollection of it is
          that the hero spends an enormous amount of time weeping.
          Alexei
        • Jack
          ... http://sangha.net/countries/Georgia/shota.htm
          Message 4 of 17 , May 7, 2004
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            >In a message dated 5/7/4 7:32:27 PM, Diamond wrote:
            >
            ><<I'd love to read "The Knight in the Panther's Skin," the poem about Queen
            >
            >Tamara, but it doesn't seem to
            >
            >be available on the Web.

            http://sangha.net/countries/Georgia/shota.htm
          • Stolzi
            Oh... hang it... I thought -she- must be the Knight in the Panther s Skin. Anyway, thanks for the link! Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of this message
            Message 5 of 17 , May 7, 2004
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              Oh... hang it... I thought -she- must be the Knight in the Panther's Skin. Anyway, thanks for the link!

              Diamond Proudbrook



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • alexeik@aol.com
              In a message dated 5/7/4 9:35:45 PM, Diamond wrote:
              Message 6 of 17 , May 8, 2004
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                In a message dated 5/7/4 9:35:45 PM, Diamond wrote:

                <<Oh... hang it... I thought -she- must be the Knight in the Panther's Skin.
                Anyway, thanks for the link!
                >>

                She *is*, actually, in the literary version (as opposed to the folk epic).
                Alexei
              • jamcconney@aol.com
                Can whoever made the first post please give me the source of the story of St. Tamar? I accessed the Knight in the Panther Skin all right, but would like to
                Message 7 of 17 , May 8, 2004
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                  Can whoever made the first post please give me the source of the story of St.
                  Tamar? I accessed the 'Knight in the Panther Skin' all right, but would like
                  to know the historical source as well.

                  Thanks!
                  Anne


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stolzi
                  Here s a historical wrap-up on St Tamar: http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/tamar_of_georgia One might add that the Christian conversion of Georgia in
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 10, 2004
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                    Here's a historical wrap-up on St Tamar:

                    http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/tamar_of_georgia

                    One might add that the Christian conversion of Georgia in the first place is attributed to a woman, St. Nino (an ascetic and healer, not a warrior). Yes, Nino with an "o."

                    Diamond Proudbrook
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: jamcconney@...
                    To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 5:35 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Crossdressing heroines and other things that remain


                    Can whoever made the first post please give me the source of the story of St.
                    Tamar? I accessed the 'Knight in the Panther Skin' all right, but would like
                    to know the historical source as well.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                    I am glad to see the name Tamar associated with some forces of good/power. Haven t had time to follow up on the actual tales yet, but until now the only
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 10, 2004
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                      I am glad to see the name Tamar associated with some forces of good/power.
                      Haven't had time to follow up on the actual tales yet, but until now the
                      only association I had for that name was I think one of Noah's daughters,
                      who didn't have the greatest plotline associated with her IIRC. It's such
                      a cool name, too.

                      Boadicea rocks.

                      Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                      lizziewriter@...
                      amor vincit omnia
                    • juliet@firinn.org
                      ... The main Biblical Tamar is one of David s daughters. Her half-brother Amnon lusted after her and tricked her into his bedroom, where he raped her and
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 10, 2004
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                        On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 02:37:43PM -0400, Elizabeth Apgar Triano wrote:
                        > I am glad to see the name Tamar associated with some forces of good/power.
                        > Haven't had time to follow up on the actual tales yet, but until now the
                        > only association I had for that name was I think one of Noah's daughters,
                        > who didn't have the greatest plotline associated with her IIRC. It's such
                        > a cool name, too.
                        >
                        The main Biblical Tamar is one of David's daughters. Her half-brother
                        Amnon lusted after her and tricked her into his bedroom, where he raped
                        her and rejected her. It wasn't her fault, but it certainly is an
                        unpleasant story.

                        Julie
                      • Carl F. Hostetter
                        At a Halloween party I attend years ago, a woman arrived dressed in a cow costume, but with a helmet and carrying a sword. She was Boadi-cow , you see. And
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 10, 2004
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                          At a Halloween party I attend years ago, a woman arrived dressed in a
                          cow costume, but with a helmet and carrying a sword. She was
                          "Boadi-cow", you see.

                          And yes, she said that men always stared at her udders when talking to
                          her...
                        • Matthew Winslow
                          ... Don t forget Judah s daughter-in-law, Tamar, concerning whom Onan infamously spilled his seed. She also seduced her father-in-law to shame him. (Genesis
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 10, 2004
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                            juliet@... [juliet@...] wrote:
                            > The main Biblical Tamar is one of David's daughters. Her half-brother
                            > Amnon lusted after her and tricked her into his bedroom, where he raped
                            > her and rejected her. It wasn't her fault, but it certainly is an
                            > unpleasant story.

                            Don't forget Judah's daughter-in-law, Tamar, concerning whom Onan infamously
                            spilled his seed. She also seduced her father-in-law to shame him. (Genesis
                            38) The child of that union was Perez, who was one of Jesus's forefathers (cf,
                            Ruth 4).

                            --
                            Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
                            "People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading."
                            --Logan Pearsall Smith
                            Currently reading: Shivering World by Kathy Tyers
                          • dianejoy@earthlink.net
                            OUCH...how moo-ving. And Udder-worldly. ---djb ... From: Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@elvish.org Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:43:08 -0400 To:
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 12, 2004
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                              OUCH...how moo-ving. And Udder-worldly. ---djb

                              Original Message:
                              -----------------
                              From: Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@...
                              Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:43:08 -0400
                              To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Crossdressing heroines and other things that remain


                              At a Halloween party I attend years ago, a woman arrived dressed in a
                              cow costume, but with a helmet and carrying a sword. She was
                              "Boadi-cow", you see.

                              And yes, she said that men always stared at her udders when talking to
                              her...




                              The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
                              Yahoo! Groups Links






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