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Re: New Beowulf

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  • WendellWag@aol.com
    In a message dated 3/3/00 7:20:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... I m sorry if that came out sounding nasty. I didn t mean it as an attack on you. An attack on
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 3, 2000
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      In a message dated 3/3/00 7:20:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      dbratman@... writes:

      > Man, I'm getting it from both sides this week, aren't I?

      I'm sorry if that came out sounding nasty. I didn't mean it as an attack on
      you. An attack on Tolkien, possibly, but not on you.

      I was referring to Tolkien's German ancestors, who were 1/64 of his ancestry
      (or was it 1/32 or 1/128?). There are Americans who make a big deal of what
      country their ancestors immigrated from, even if they immigrated over 200
      years ago. There's something a bit odd about an Englishman making a big deal
      about his ethnic identity. It's not as odd as an American making a big deal
      about his ethnic identity, but it's odd nevertheless.

      Maybe my testiness about this comes from having a two-year argument in the
      letters column of _Amon Hen_ (the Tolkien Society quarterly newsletter) about
      the "Englishness" of _The Lord of the Rings_. There are some T. S. members
      who think that the appearance of any American voices in a movie version of
      the book would be utter heresy.

      Wendell Wagner
    • Ted Sherman
      David, I also was not attacking you, or JRRT; this is just an instance where I think he was wrong (thankfully, there are very few times where I disagree with
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 3, 2000
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        David,

        I also was not attacking you, or JRRT; this is just an instance where I
        think he was wrong (thankfully, there are very few times where I
        disagree with him).

        Ted

        WendellWag@... wrote:
        >
        > From: WendellWag@...
        >
        > In a message dated 3/3/00 7:20:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        > dbratman@... writes:
        >
        > > Man, I'm getting it from both sides this week, aren't I?
        >
        > I'm sorry if that came out sounding nasty. I didn't mean it as an attack on
        > you. An attack on Tolkien, possibly, but not on you.
        >
        > I was referring to Tolkien's German ancestors, who were 1/64 of his ancestry
        > (or was it 1/32 or 1/128?). There are Americans who make a big deal of what
        > country their ancestors immigrated from, even if they immigrated over 200
        > years ago. There's something a bit odd about an Englishman making a big deal
        > about his ethnic identity. It's not as odd as an American making a big deal
        > about his ethnic identity, but it's odd nevertheless.
        >
        > Maybe my testiness about this comes from having a two-year argument in the
        > letters column of _Amon Hen_ (the Tolkien Society quarterly newsletter) about
        > the "Englishness" of _The Lord of the Rings_. There are some T. S. members
        > who think that the appearance of any American voices in a movie version of
        > the book would be utter heresy.
        >
        > Wendell Wagner
        >
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        --
        Dr. Theodore James Sherman
        Department of English, Box X041
        College of Liberal Arts
        Middle Tennessee State University
        Murfreesboro, TN 37130
        615 898-5836; FAX 615 898-5098
        tsherman@...
        tedsherman@...
      • David S. Bratman
        ... Americans tend not, however, to make a big deal out of ancestors who were only 1/64th of their ancestry, unless it s something rare and special. I know
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 3, 2000
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          On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 WendellWag@... wrote:

          > I was referring to Tolkien's German ancestors, who were 1/64 of his ancestry
          > (or was it 1/32 or 1/128?). There are Americans who make a big deal of what
          > country their ancestors immigrated from, even if they immigrated over 200
          > years ago. There's something a bit odd about an Englishman making a big deal
          > about his ethnic identity. It's not as odd as an American making a big deal
          > about his ethnic identity, but it's odd nevertheless.

          Americans tend not, however, to make a big deal out of ancestors who were
          only 1/64th of their ancestry, unless it's something rare and special. I
          know people who are 1/64th Amerind, and proud of it.

          Tolkien didn't make a big deal out of his ancestry: these are three
          letters over an entire lifetime! But to the extent that he did, it was
          1) to correct the misapprehension, from his name, that he was German; 2)
          because he loved his homeland and felt a special connection with it.
          There's nothing wrong with that: here in California, people whose
          ancestors have been here for a whole hundred years feel a special sense
          of connectedness which they hold over those of us who've only been here
          for 30 or 40 years; and we, in turn, who can remember Silicon Valley
          before it was called that, and when it was full of orchards, have
          something over the dot-com weenies.

          > Maybe my testiness about this comes from having a two-year argument in the
          > letters column of _Amon Hen_ (the Tolkien Society quarterly newsletter) about
          > the "Englishness" of _The Lord of the Rings_. There are some T. S. members
          > who think that the appearance of any American voices in a movie version of
          > the book would be utter heresy.

          I agree with them!

          David Bratman
          - not responsible for the following advertisement -
        • Berni Phillips
          ... Hmmph. Surely they would agree to let Americans voice the orcs! Berni David Bratman is not responsible for the following message: (Just kidding, dear!)
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 3, 2000
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            ----------
            >From: "David S. Bratman" <dbratman@...>

            >On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 WendellWag@... wrote:

            >> Maybe my testiness about this comes from having a two-year argument in the
            >> letters column of _Amon Hen_ (the Tolkien Society quarterly newsletter) about
            >> the "Englishness" of _The Lord of the Rings_. There are some T. S. members
            >> who think that the appearance of any American voices in a movie version of
            >> the book would be utter heresy.
            >
            >I agree with them!

            Hmmph. Surely they would agree to let Americans voice the orcs!

            Berni
            David Bratman is not responsible for the following message:
            (Just kidding, dear!)
          • David S. Bratman
            ... What, I _am_ responsible for the following message? DB
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 3, 2000
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              On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Berni Phillips wrote:

              > David Bratman is not responsible for the following message:
              > (Just kidding, dear!)

              What, I _am_ responsible for the following message? <g>

              DB
            • Ted Sherman
              ... David, Your comment about the orchards brought back a flood of memories of the Santa Clara Valley when it still have more orchards than concrete. I can
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 3, 2000
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                "David S. Bratman" wrote:
                >
                >and we, in turn, who can remember Silicon Valley
                > before it was called that, and when it was full of orchards, have
                > something over the dot-com weenies.
                >
                David,

                Your comment about the orchards brought back a flood of memories of the
                Santa Clara Valley when it still have more orchards than concrete. I can
                remember looking down over the valley from Skyline or the Saratoga Gap
                and seeing blossoms--plum and apricot--from the Santa Cruz foothills to
                the Mt. Hamilton range.

                Thanks for the jolt to my memory!

                Ted
                --
                Dr. Theodore James Sherman
                Department of English, Box X041
                College of Liberal Arts
                Middle Tennessee State University
                Murfreesboro, TN 37130
                615 898-5836; FAX 615 898-5098
                tsherman@...
                tedsherman@...
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