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Re: [mythsoc] SFSite Editorial On RotK and PJ

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  • Bill
    It s your right to feel as you do Carl. I happen to agree with the editorial. The movies are made, the awards won. Time to move on. ... [Non-text portions of
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 2, 2004
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      It's your right to feel as you do Carl.
      I happen to agree with the editorial.
      The movies are made, the awards won.
      Time to move on.


      Carl F. Hostetter wrote:

      > I should clarify that by saying that Tolkien did not share Jackson's
      > emphasis of "the militaristic, the fantastic, and the kinetic", I mean
      > "fantasy" in the sense that Jackson and the author of the article in
      > question use it: swords-and-socery, wizards-dragons-unicorns, etc.,
      > which is most emphatically _not_ what Tolkien considered to be the
      > essential nature and elements of fantasy.
      >
      > I would also like to point out that the piece in question seems to
      > equate approval of the films with approval of Tolkien's story. And yet
      > so many defend the films by pointing out that they are different
      > "visions", i.e., different stories, and necessarily so by virtue of the
      > supposedly novel fact that movies and books are different. I have never
      > agreed that a film and a book cannot tell the same story in its
      > essentials; but clearly Jackson's story is _not_ Tolkien's; and so I
      > fail to see why approval or disapproval of one for its virtues or lack
      > thereof should be regarded as a statement on the other.
      >
      > Carl
      >
      > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carl F. Hostetter
      Gee, thanks for informing me that I have a right to feel as I do. I wouldn t have known otherwise. Of course, you don t seem really to mean what you say, since
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 2, 2004
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        Gee, thanks for informing me that I have a right to feel as I do. I
        wouldn't have known otherwise.

        Of course, you don't seem really to mean what you say, since you then
        go on to say, basically, that I should shut up ("move on", in your
        euphemism).

        I really resent your patronizing tone.

        Carl


        On Mar 2, 2004, at 7:42 PM, Bill wrote:

        > It's your right to feel as you do Carl.
        > I happen to agree with the editorial.
        > The movies are made, the awards won.
        > Time to move on.
      • Bill
        Carl.. I see you now presume to know not only what JRRT would think but also what I am thinking as well. I was not patronising you. If anyone in any of these
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 2, 2004
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          Carl..
          I see you now presume to know not only what JRRT would think
          but also what
          I am thinking as well.
          I was not patronising you. If anyone in any of these
          discussions has been patronising,
          it's been you. You can couch it in whatever verbal refinery you
          want, but you
          have been snobby and condescending.
          I've tried to be polite, I've tried to be humorous. Obviously,
          any attempt to defend
          Jackson is to be sneered at by you. "Time to move on" was my
          recognition that
          no argument I could present would change that opinion. The original
          comment was
          my surrendering to that fact.
          Believe me, if I wanted you to "shut up" as you put it, I would
          not couch it in
          any vague phrasing, as anyone of my friends would tell you
          Unpatronizingly yours,
          Bill





          Carl F. Hostetter wrote:

          > Gee, thanks for informing me that I have a right to feel as I do. I
          > wouldn't have known otherwise.
          >
          > Of course, you don't seem really to mean what you say, since you then
          > go on to say, basically, that I should shut up ("move on", in your
          > euphemism).
          >
          > I really resent your patronizing tone.
          >
          > Carl
          >
          > On Mar 2, 2004, at 7:42 PM, Bill wrote:
          >
          > > It's your right to feel as you do Carl.
          > > I happen to agree with the editorial.
          > > The movies are made, the awards won.
          > > Time to move on.
          >
          >
          > The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill
          make that verbal finery. Although a case could be made for the existence of verbal refineries in classrooms, I suppose. Tiredly, Bill
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 2, 2004
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            <sigh> make that verbal finery.
            Although a case could be made for the existence of verbal refineries in
            classrooms, I suppose.
            Tiredly,
            Bill
            Bill wrote:

            > Carl..
            > I see you now presume to know not only what JRRT would think
            > but also what
            > I am thinking as well.
            > I was not patronising you. If anyone in any of these
            > discussions has been patronising,
            > it's been you. You can couch it in whatever verbal refinery you
            > want, but you
            > have been snobby and condescending.
            > I've tried to be polite, I've tried to be humorous. Obviously,
            > any attempt to defend
            > Jackson is to be sneered at by you. "Time to move on" was my
            > recognition that
            > no argument I could present would change that opinion. The original
            > comment was
            > my surrendering to that fact.
            > Believe me, if I wanted you to "shut up" as you put it, I would
            > not couch it in
            > any vague phrasing, as anyone of my friends would tell you
            > Unpatronizingly yours,
            > Bill
            >
          • Carl F. Hostetter
            Bill, I don t have to know what you think; we _all_ can see what you _wrote_, which was (and is) textbook patronization. You presume that the only purpose of
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 3, 2004
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              Bill, I don't have to know what you think; we _all_ can see what you
              _wrote_, which was (and is) textbook patronization.

              You presume that the only purpose of writing is to change opinion. This
              is false. I _expressed_ my opinion, and you expressed yours.

              The problem is that you are not content to leave it there, or to allow
              others to express their opinion when it is not favorably disposed
              towards Jackson's films, but instead engage in _ad hominem_ ("snobby",
              "condescending") and attempts to silence dissent ("move on"). I did
              nothing of the kind to you; why do you feel it is at all appropriate to
              treat me so shabbily?

              Carl




              On Mar 3, 2004, at 12:42 AM, Bill wrote:

              > Carl..
              > I see you now presume to know not only what JRRT would think
              > but also what
              > I am thinking as well.
              > I was not patronising you. If anyone in any of these
              > discussions has been patronising,
              > it's been you. You can couch it in whatever verbal refinery you
              > want, but you
              > have been snobby and condescending.
              > I've tried to be polite, I've tried to be humorous.
              > Obviously,
              > any attempt to defend
              > Jackson is to be sneered at by you. "Time to move on" was my
              > recognition that
              > no argument I could present would change that opinion. The
              > original
              > comment was
              > my surrendering to that fact.
              > Believe me, if I wanted you to "shut up" as you put it, I
              > would
              > not couch it in
              > any vague phrasing, as anyone of my friends would tell you
              > Unpatronizingly yours,
              > Bill
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Carl F. Hostetter wrote:
              >
              >> Gee, thanks for informing me that I have a right to feel as I do. I
              >> wouldn't have known otherwise.
              >>
              >> Of course, you don't seem really to mean what you say, since you then
              >> go on to say, basically, that I should shut up ("move on", in your
              >> euphemism).
              >>
              >> I really resent your patronizing tone.
              >>
              >> Carl
              >>
              >> On Mar 2, 2004, at 7:42 PM, Bill wrote:
              >>
              >>> It's your right to feel as you do Carl.
              >>> I happen to agree with the editorial.
              >>> The movies are made, the awards won.
              >>> Time to move on.
              >>
              >>
              >> The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
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