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Re: [mythsoc] Re: PJ-The Socialists Chime in

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  • David Bratman
    ... Yes, that s quite remarkable. Many socialists and other leftists, notably China Mieville and Michael Moorcock, are not able to get past this, and
    Message 1 of 42 , Jan 31, 2004
      At 05:21 PM 1/26/2004 +0000, Marc wrote:

      >I don't know about anyone else, but I find it kind of fascinating
      >that articles on a World Socialist website are so positive about
      >Tolkien and about LOTR, the books. LOTR is the type of literature I
      >might expect them to almost reflexively dislike, particularly as a
      >romanticization of a feudal past and as being against social
      >progress. Instead they seem to be able to get past that to find
      >aspects about it they like (and that are lost in Jackson's version).

      Yes, that's quite remarkable. Many socialists and other leftists, notably
      China Mieville and Michael Moorcock, are not able to get past this, and
      reflexifly bash Tolkien in consequence.


      >There is not an awful lot of hierarchy in LOTR.

      I would tend to agree, though I would expect this statement to be jumped on
      with squeals of protest by the kind of people who objected so frantically
      when I once wrote that there's not a lot of flashy spell-casting magic in LOTR.


      At 04:40 PM 1/28/2004 -0500, Stolzi wrote:
      >Tolkien grew up in an era and a milieu (the RC Church) where he would have
      >been exposed to G.K. Chesterton and his "Distributist" political philosophy.

      Tolkien would have been exposed to a lot of things. That doesn't say
      anything about what he thought of them, or if he thought of them. I made
      the mistake in a conversation recently of mentioning that I had no interest
      whatever in a certain current media celebrity obsession, which only led to
      long obsessive discussion of this person, which I was incapable of joining.

      Tolkien's view of socialism is probably hidden in comments from Hob Hayward
      - "It's all these 'gatherers' and 'sharers', I reckon, going round counting
      and measuring and taking off to storage. They do more gathering than
      sharing, and we never see most of the stuff again" - and Farmer Cotton -
      "Everything except Rules got shorter and shorter, unless one could hide a
      bit of one's own when the ruffians went round gathering stuff up 'for fair
      distribution' which meant they got it and we didn't."
    • dianejoy@earthlink.net
      I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen s affair, even from Arthur s deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for me; a
      Message 42 of 42 , Feb 5, 2004
        I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen's
        affair, even from Arthur's deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for
        me; a brunette Gwen is dubious to me, though it's likely she could be one
        if she's Celtic (depends on your favorite sources); lots of dark haired
        folk. Why does Connery appear in so many dreadful films? O;) ---djb

        Original Message:
        -----------------
        From: David Bratman dbratman@...
        Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:54:28 -0800
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Awards, deserved and undeserved


        At 01:18 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, Grace wrote:
        >In a message dated 1/31/2004 5:52:43 PM Central Standard Time,
        >dbratman@... writes:
        >The Tolkien Ensemble's music is very evocative of the book: so much so, in
        >fact, that it would be badly suited for Jackson's films, which is evocative
        >of something else altogether.
        >True, true. But at least it would have given me something to enjoy while I
        >was hideously bored for three precious hours that were wasted, never to be
        >recovered. :-)

        Why not just wear a headset to the theatre and get a more pleasant
        soundtrack for the whole thing, not just the music? It's not like very
        much in the plot would be a surprise, and that which was a surprise you'd
        be better off not knowing.

        Only one film I've ever watched all the way through was so bad I felt like
        demanding a refund, not of my money, but of the time it sucked out of my
        life. This was "First Knight", an Arthurian fluff utterly unredeemed by
        the presence of Sean Connery, John Gielgud, and even Alexis Denisof.

        - David Bratman


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