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Re: PJ-The Socialists Chime in

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  • marcfcs
    ... English ... as ... as ... these ... forced ... Good point. I didn t think about Morris and how he reconciled his romanticization of the medieval past with
    Message 1 of 42 , Jan 28, 2004
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      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth R. Milner"
      <lizmilner@m...> wrote:
      >
      > Ah, but you forget there are different flavors of socialism.
      English
      > socialism was greatly influenced by William Morris. Writers such
      as
      > E.P. Thompson use Blake and Morris as touchstones of authenticity
      as
      > often as they cite Marx. Perhaps the most fascinating blend of
      these
      > ideas is found in A.L. Lloyd's "Folksong in England" which advances
      > the idea that the redemptive communal values of the agricultural
      > village were preserved by the dispossessed villagers who were
      forced
      > to work in those Dark Satanic Mills. Thus, folklore contains the
      > seeds of social transformation, and the working class (sort of like
      > Sam Gamgee and his gift from Galadriel) are the guardians of this
      > precious seed.


      Good point. I didn't think about Morris and how he reconciled his
      romanticization of the medieval past with his socialist ideals (and
      particularly the relationship to the arts and crafts movement). In
      thinking some more about it, Tolkien's often independent farmers and
      craftsmen aren't too far off of this (at least to the extent that
      Tolkien tells us anything about economics or social structure in
      LOTR). As far as "feudalism" goes, the primary aspect of it found
      in LOTR seems to be prominent lord/vassal relationships where a
      character owes personal service to a lord, which is very in keeping
      with the sources Tolkien drew on. There really is not a lot of
      evidence of "feudalism" of the Marxist socio-economic type and not a
      lot of evidence for the average person's property rights (other than
      in the shire where they seem to have non-"feudal" individual property
      rights). Further, most of the "feudal" relationships seem to be
      fairly flat. There is not an awful lot of hierarchy in LOTR. Nor
      is it completely clear as to what extent various broader military
      forces are made up of those who have "feudal" relationships as
      opposed to more of a citizen's militia or professional soldiers.

      Regards,

      Marc

      marclists@...
    • dianejoy@earthlink.net
      I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen s affair, even from Arthur s deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for me; a
      Message 42 of 42 , Feb 5, 2004
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        I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen's
        affair, even from Arthur's deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for
        me; a brunette Gwen is dubious to me, though it's likely she could be one
        if she's Celtic (depends on your favorite sources); lots of dark haired
        folk. Why does Connery appear in so many dreadful films? O;) ---djb

        Original Message:
        -----------------
        From: David Bratman dbratman@...
        Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:54:28 -0800
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Awards, deserved and undeserved


        At 01:18 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, Grace wrote:
        >In a message dated 1/31/2004 5:52:43 PM Central Standard Time,
        >dbratman@... writes:
        >The Tolkien Ensemble's music is very evocative of the book: so much so, in
        >fact, that it would be badly suited for Jackson's films, which is evocative
        >of something else altogether.
        >True, true. But at least it would have given me something to enjoy while I
        >was hideously bored for three precious hours that were wasted, never to be
        >recovered. :-)

        Why not just wear a headset to the theatre and get a more pleasant
        soundtrack for the whole thing, not just the music? It's not like very
        much in the plot would be a surprise, and that which was a surprise you'd
        be better off not knowing.

        Only one film I've ever watched all the way through was so bad I felt like
        demanding a refund, not of my money, but of the time it sucked out of my
        life. This was "First Knight", an Arthurian fluff utterly unredeemed by
        the presence of Sean Connery, John Gielgud, and even Alexis Denisof.

        - David Bratman


        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org


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