Re: PJ-The Socialists Chime in
- --- In email@example.com, "Elizabeth R. Milner"
> Ah, but you forget there are different flavors of socialism.
> socialism was greatly influenced by William Morris. Writers suchas
> E.P. Thompson use Blake and Morris as touchstones of authenticityas
> often as they cite Marx. Perhaps the most fascinating blend ofthese
> ideas is found in A.L. Lloyd's "Folksong in England" which advancesforced
> the idea that the redemptive communal values of the agricultural
> village were preserved by the dispossessed villagers who were
> to work in those Dark Satanic Mills. Thus, folklore contains theGood point. I didn't think about Morris and how he reconciled his
> seeds of social transformation, and the working class (sort of like
> Sam Gamgee and his gift from Galadriel) are the guardians of this
> precious seed.
romanticization of the medieval past with his socialist ideals (and
particularly the relationship to the arts and crafts movement). In
thinking some more about it, Tolkien's often independent farmers and
craftsmen aren't too far off of this (at least to the extent that
Tolkien tells us anything about economics or social structure in
LOTR). As far as "feudalism" goes, the primary aspect of it found
in LOTR seems to be prominent lord/vassal relationships where a
character owes personal service to a lord, which is very in keeping
with the sources Tolkien drew on. There really is not a lot of
evidence of "feudalism" of the Marxist socio-economic type and not a
lot of evidence for the average person's property rights (other than
in the shire where they seem to have non-"feudal" individual property
rights). Further, most of the "feudal" relationships seem to be
fairly flat. There is not an awful lot of hierarchy in LOTR. Nor
is it completely clear as to what extent various broader military
forces are made up of those who have "feudal" relationships as
opposed to more of a citizen's militia or professional soldiers.
- I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen's
affair, even from Arthur's deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for
me; a brunette Gwen is dubious to me, though it's likely she could be one
if she's Celtic (depends on your favorite sources); lots of dark haired
folk. Why does Connery appear in so many dreadful films? O;) ---djb
From: David Bratman dbratman@...
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:54:28 -0800
Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Awards, deserved and undeserved
At 01:18 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, Grace wrote:
>In a message dated 1/31/2004 5:52:43 PM Central Standard Time,Why not just wear a headset to the theatre and get a more pleasant
>The Tolkien Ensemble's music is very evocative of the book: so much so, in
>fact, that it would be badly suited for Jackson's films, which is evocative
>of something else altogether.
>True, true. But at least it would have given me something to enjoy while I
>was hideously bored for three precious hours that were wasted, never to be
soundtrack for the whole thing, not just the music? It's not like very
much in the plot would be a surprise, and that which was a surprise you'd
be better off not knowing.
Only one film I've ever watched all the way through was so bad I felt like
demanding a refund, not of my money, but of the time it sucked out of my
life. This was "First Knight", an Arthurian fluff utterly unredeemed by
the presence of Sean Connery, John Gielgud, and even Alexis Denisof.
- David Bratman
The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
mail2web - Check your email from the web at