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Re: PJ-The Socialists Chime in

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  • Elizabeth R. Milner
    Ah, but you forget there are different flavors of socialism. English socialism was greatly influenced by William Morris. Writers such as E.P. Thompson use
    Message 1 of 42 , Jan 27, 2004
      Ah, but you forget there are different flavors of socialism. English
      socialism was greatly influenced by William Morris. Writers such as
      E.P. Thompson use Blake and Morris as touchstones of authenticity as
      often as they cite Marx. Perhaps the most fascinating blend of these
      ideas is found in A.L. Lloyd's "Folksong in England" which advances
      the idea that the redemptive communal values of the agricultural
      village were preserved by the dispossessed villagers who were forced
      to work in those Dark Satanic Mills. Thus, folklore contains the
      seeds of social transformation, and the working class (sort of like
      Sam Gamgee and his gift from Galadriel) are the guardians of this
      precious seed.

      I have given a very quick and dirty summary of a argument that's a
      lot more subtly put. The point I'm trying to make is that Marx, like
      every other European of his time, was highly influenced by the
      Romantic movement. You could interpret Marxist theory as a
      redemption myth, I think. British socialists (of the EP Thompson
      school, at least) have chosen to focus on Marx, the Romantic critic
      of captitalism rather than Marx, the Scientific Socialist. As a
      result their writings are relatively free of jargon and often a joy
      to read.

      --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, Stolzi@a... wrote:
      > In a message dated 1/26/2004 11:59:49 AM Central Standard Time,
      > marcfcs@a... writes:
      > >I find it kind of fascinating that articles on a World Socialist
      website are
      > so positive about
      > >Tolkien and about LOTR, the books.
      > I did too, but as I nosed around I got the impression (under
      correction) that
      > all the articles were by one person; perhaps her aesthetic
      appreciation got
      > the better of her politics, because I felt that she praised JRRT's
      > while feeling the tiniest bit reluctant about needing to praise
      it. Naomi
      > Mitchison also loved Tolkien's book and corresponded w/him about
      it; she, if not
      > a Socialist, was a "feminist and freethinker" and married to a
      > politician. And died, I just learned to my amazement, at age 101.
      > As for Marx, would he not have been amazed at the continued, or
      > renewed, popularity of myth in our day? I suspect he would think
      that blockbuster
      > fantasy movies had taken the place of religion as "the opiate of
      the people."
      > Saw a rather interesting staging of DAS RHEINGOLD once, though,
      which cast
      > the whole thing in 19th-century political terms (Alberich a mine
      owner, Wotan a
      > capitalist in a silk dressing-gown, etc).
      > I've been reading the NARNIA books and in VOYAGE OF THE DAWN
      > Eustace's parents seem to be a sort of mild kind of lefties. And
      Eustace "liked
      > books if they were books of information and had pictures of grain
      elevators or of
      > fat foreign children doing exercises in model schools."
      > Later there is this: "Most of us know what we should expect to
      find in a
      > dragon's lair, but, as I said before, Eustace had read only the
      wrong books. They
      > had a lot to say about exports and imports and governments and
      drains, but
      > they were weak on dragons."
      > One feels those sort of books shd be more acceptable to World
      > Diamond Proudbrook
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dianejoy@earthlink.net
      I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen s affair, even from Arthur s deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for me; a
      Message 42 of 42 , Feb 5, 2004
        I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen's
        affair, even from Arthur's deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for
        me; a brunette Gwen is dubious to me, though it's likely she could be one
        if she's Celtic (depends on your favorite sources); lots of dark haired
        folk. Why does Connery appear in so many dreadful films? O;) ---djb

        Original Message:
        From: David Bratman dbratman@...
        Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:54:28 -0800
        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Awards, deserved and undeserved

        At 01:18 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, Grace wrote:
        >In a message dated 1/31/2004 5:52:43 PM Central Standard Time,
        >dbratman@... writes:
        >The Tolkien Ensemble's music is very evocative of the book: so much so, in
        >fact, that it would be badly suited for Jackson's films, which is evocative
        >of something else altogether.
        >True, true. But at least it would have given me something to enjoy while I
        >was hideously bored for three precious hours that were wasted, never to be
        >recovered. :-)

        Why not just wear a headset to the theatre and get a more pleasant
        soundtrack for the whole thing, not just the music? It's not like very
        much in the plot would be a surprise, and that which was a surprise you'd
        be better off not knowing.

        Only one film I've ever watched all the way through was so bad I felt like
        demanding a refund, not of my money, but of the time it sucked out of my
        life. This was "First Knight", an Arthurian fluff utterly unredeemed by
        the presence of Sean Connery, John Gielgud, and even Alexis Denisof.

        - David Bratman

        The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org

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