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Hobbits and Dwarves got no reason

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  • David Lenander
    So, how tall is Peter Jackson? Short People got no reason to live.... ... except for comic relief? At least Randy Newman didn t write the theme song for
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 3, 2004
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      So, how tall is Peter Jackson? "Short People got no reason to live...."
      ... except for comic relief? At least Randy Newman didn't write the theme
      song for the films.....

      Hm, but is J-Pippin's offer of fealty "quite moving" for someone coming to
      the film without reading the book? Neither you nor I can really view the
      film from that perspective (and I haven't viewed it at all, yet), but I
      wonder if, sans that literary and story context, J-Pippin's and J-Merry's
      activities may be more comic for the non-reader of Tolkien's text.



      on 1/2/04, Susan Palwick at mythsoc@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > Message: 3
      > Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 14:25:56 EST
      > From: SusanPal@...
      > Subject: Re: Outstanding article
      >
      > I disagree with the writer's statement that Jackson uses Merry and Pippin, in
      > this third film, "almost exclusively for comic relief." I find the scene in
      > which Pippin swears fealty to Denethor, although Denethor proceeds to mock him
      > and Gandalf acts impatient, to be quite moving: J-Pippin is asserting his
      > own dignity, the fact that he has gifts to offer, even though other people
      > discount him. Nor does the conversation between Gandalf and Pippin about
      > death
      > come across as "comic relief" (although it does distort Tolkien's words). And
      > although it's true that Eomer mocks Merry's prowess in battle, Eowyn hotly
      > defends him, and since we're meant to side with her, clearly we're meant to
      > side
      > with him, too.
      >
      > I thought the film actually did quite a nice job of capturing the hobbits'
      > sense (which is described in the book) of being very small actors on a very
      > large stage. I suspect that by the time the film got to this point, the
      > Boston
      > Globe writer was too influenced by other disappointments to perceive the
      > non-comic emotional overtones of the Merry and Pippin scenes.
      >
      > I remain far more troubled by the use of Gimli as persistent comic relief.
      >
      > Susan

      -- David Lenander
      2095 Hamline Ave. Roseville, MN 55113
      d-lena@... 651-292-8887
      http://www.umn.edu/~d-lena/RIVENDELL.html
    • Ginger McElwee
      I went to the movie with my husband who has never read the books. He heard The Hobbit when I read it to the children when they were young. Otherwise he is
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 4, 2004
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        I went to the movie with my husband who has never read the books. He
        heard The Hobbit when I read it to the children when they were young.
        Otherwise he is free of any knowledge of Tolkien. He found Pippin's
        swearing fealty to Denethor dramatic, not comic. However, he thought
        Frodo was a weak fool. I am more concerned with how poorly Frodo's
        character and motives were portrayed than I am with the portrayal of the
        other hobbits.
        Ginger McElwee


        Hm, but is J-Pippin's offer of fealty "quite moving" for someone coming
        to
        the film without reading the book? Neither you nor I can really view
        the
        film from that perspective (and I haven't viewed it at all, yet), but I
        wonder if, sans that literary and story context, J-Pippin's and
        J-Merry's
        activities may be more comic for the non-reader of Tolkien's text.














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      • aveeris523@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/4/2004 10:10:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, gingermc@cox.net writes: I am more concerned with how poorly Frodo s character and motives were
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 4, 2004
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          In a message dated 1/4/2004 10:10:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          gingermc@... writes:
          I am more concerned with how poorly Frodo's
          character and motives were portrayed than I am with the portrayal of the
          other hobbits.
          Ginger McElwee
          I agree! In LOTR Frodo came close to taking out the Witch King on Weathertop,
          and it was Frodo, not Arwen, who defied (weakly) the Nazgul in the Ford of
          Bruinen. There was way too much fiddling with the thoughts and intent of the
          characters throughout the films: Theoden, Treebeard, Saruman are other examples.
          Steve Gaddis


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stolzi@aol.com
          In a message dated 1/4/2004 2:28:37 PM Central Standard Time, ... Weathertop, ... examples. And (hugely) Faramir. Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 4, 2004
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            In a message dated 1/4/2004 2:28:37 PM Central Standard Time,
            aveeris523@... writes:

            >I agree! In LOTR Frodo came close to taking out the Witch King on
            Weathertop,
            >and it was Frodo, not Arwen, who defied (weakly) the Nazgul in the Ford of
            >Bruinen. There was way too much fiddling with the thoughts and intent of the
            >characters throughout the films: Theoden, Treebeard, Saruman are other
            examples.


            And (hugely) Faramir.



            Diamond Proudbrook


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Martinez
            ... Hm. Well, Frodo struck out at the Lord of the Nazgul with his (Bombadil-supplied Westernesse sword). The sword cut the Nazgul s cloak, but had Frodo
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 4, 2004
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              --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, aveeris523@a... wrote:
              > I agree! In LOTR Frodo came close to taking out the Witch King on
              > Weathertop,

              Hm. Well, Frodo struck out at the Lord of the Nazgul with his
              (Bombadil-supplied Westernesse sword). The sword cut the Nazgul's
              cloak, but had Frodo struck the Witch-king himself, I doubt the blow
              would have been mortal. Such a blow should have had the same effect
              as Merry's sword did months later. At least, we can assume that if
              we also assume that all four swords were bound with spells for the
              bane of Mordor (a statement Aragorn makes only regarding Merry and
              Pippin's swords, but I feel it is a reasonable assumption
              nonetheless).

              All that babbled, I don't believe Frodo could have killed the Lord of
              the Nazgul. It would have required a second blow, such as Eowyn
              delivered, and at the time (so far as we know) Aragorn did not have
              an effective sword.

              > and it was Frodo, not Arwen, who defied (weakly) the Nazgul in the
              > Ford of Bruinen.

              But Frodo didn't deliver any rousing speeches or summon the river. I
              like Liv Tyler, so I am clearly forgiving egregious lack of
              faithfulness here. But then, they weren't exactly faithful to the
              book on anything other than the fact that Frodo left the Shire and
              made it to Rivendell -- encountering various perils along the way.
            • Larry Swain
              I agree. But of all the mischaracterizations in the Trilogy of movies, I think Frodo and Sam are the worst. To cast Elijah Wood, a very yount actor, rather
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 5, 2004
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                I agree. But of all the mischaracterizations in the Trilogy of movies, I think Frodo and Sam are the worst. To cast Elijah Wood, a very yount actor, rather than someone middle aged hurts the movie considerably. Wood just doesn't have the gravitas for the part; I would have felt much better if they had switched actors....Astin as Frodo and WOod as Sam.FOr me, in all 3 films, this miscasting of Frodo jarred in every scene (save one) that Wood was in.

                Larry Swain






                > In a message dated 1/4/2004 10:10:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                > gingermc@... writes:
                > I am more concerned with how poorly Frodo's
                > character and motives were portrayed than I am with the portrayal of the
                > other hobbits.
                > Ginger McElwee
                > I agree! In LOTR Frodo came close to taking out the Witch King on Weathertop,
                > and it was Frodo, not Arwen, who defied (weakly) the Nazgul in the Ford of
                > Bruinen. There was way too much fiddling with the thoughts and intent of the
                > characters throughout the films: Theoden, Treebeard, Saruman are other examples.
                > Steve Gaddis
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
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                >
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              • SusanPal@aol.com
                In a message dated 1/5/2004 11:29:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, theswain@operamail.com writes: FOr me, in all 3 films, this miscasting of Frodo jarred in every
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 5, 2004
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                  In a message dated 1/5/2004 11:29:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                  theswain@... writes:

                  "FOr me, in all 3 films, this miscasting of Frodo jarred in every scene (save
                  one) that Wood was in."

                  Well, now I'm curious! What was the one scene where it *didn't* jar? (If I
                  missed this in an earlier post, I apologize.)

                  Thanks,
                  Susan


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • SusanPal@aol.com
                  In a message dated 1/3/2004 7:50:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, d-lena@umn.edu writes: Hm, but is J-Pippin s offer of fealty quite moving for someone coming
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 5, 2004
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                    In a message dated 1/3/2004 7:50:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, d-lena@...
                    writes:

                    "Hm, but is J-Pippin's offer of fealty "quite moving" for someone coming to
                    the film without reading the book?"

                    Sorry to answer this late -- it got buried in a pile of other e-mail. My
                    husband hasn't read the book for decades, and found the scene moving, so I
                    suspect that non-book-readers would too (especially since that population, as a
                    whole, responds *more* favorably to the films than readers do!).

                    Susan


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jack
                    ... I haven t read LoTR in twenty years, so I found the films fine. On the other hand, I read Dune before watching the miniseries on DVD. Oft times I went
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 5, 2004
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                      >Sorry to answer this late -- it got buried in a pile of other e-mail. My
                      >husband hasn't read the book for decades, and found the scene moving, so I
                      >suspect that non-book-readers would too (especially since that population, as a
                      >whole, responds *more* favorably to the films than readers do!).

                      I haven't read LoTR in twenty years, so I found the films fine. On the other hand, I read Dune
                      before watching the miniseries on DVD. Oft times I went 'What teh $#@!' Even more odd was
                      watching Gaiman's Neverwhere series (again on DVD) after reading the British version of the
                      Neverwhere novel. Quite surreal to see the changes *he* made in writing the novel after doing
                      the series on BBC!
                    • Larry Swain
                      ... From: SusanPal@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:30:48 EST To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Hobbits and Dwarves got no reason ... Hi
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 5, 2004
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: SusanPal@...
                        Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:30:48 EST
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Hobbits and Dwarves got no reason

                        > In a message dated 1/5/2004 11:29:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                        > theswain@... writes:
                        >
                        > "FOr me, in all 3 films, this miscasting of Frodo jarred in every scene (save
                        > one) that Wood was in."
                        >
                        > Well, now I'm curious! What was the one scene where it *didn't* jar? (If I
                        > missed this in an earlier post, I apologize.)

                        Hi Susan,

                        The one scene that didn't grate on me was the Council of Elrond from the first movie. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think that scene was done well or that I suddenly forgot that it was Elijah Wood playing Frodo up there or anything of that kind, it just seemed that in that scene we finally got into the ballpark---alas for only a moment.

                        Larry Swain
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