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Re: Re: [mythsoc] Heaney's Beowulf or someone's Hiawatha?

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  • alexeik@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/3/3 3:36:08 PM, David Bratman wrote:
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
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      In a message dated 12/3/3 3:36:08 PM, David Bratman wrote:

      << Ojibwe, a nation I've heard
      >of but I'm not sure where to place them geographically.

      Upper Great Lakes. Usually spelled Ojibwa (which may be why you had
      trouble turning info up on the Web) and now usually known as the Chippewa.
      >>

      "Chippewa" is the form most commonly used in the US, while "Ojibway" is the
      form most commonly used in Canada. Both are approximations of the native form
      _Ojibwe_. Today it's become fashionable to use the term _Anishinaabe_
      (literally "normal person"), which can be applied to a number of Algonkian-speaking
      peoples of the Great Lakes area.
      Alexei
    • alexeik@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, you wrote:
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
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        In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, you wrote:

        <<LOL I have to admit that I like "Hiawatha" better than "Wenabozho", but
        would one call it good taste or perhaps good judgement of his primarily
        English-speaking audience?>>

        Certainly "Hiawatha" (especially pronounced the familiar English way: the
        actual Iroquois pronunciation would be 'hee-ya-watt-ha") sounds far less bizarre
        to an English-speaking audience than "Wenabozho". Longfellow's choice is
        perfectly reasonable if one assumes that his audience will never have any further
        interest in the culture that serves as the background for the story. For anyone
        who does know something about it, however, the effect is as jarring as, say,
        arbitrarily giving one of the characters in a Chinese story a Japanese name.
        Alexei
      • alexeik@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, Lizzie wrote:
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
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          In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, Lizzie wrote:

          <<I am wondering lately, in my usual muddy way, whether a Yank interest in
          things Native American would be a similar thing to the English interest
          (occasionally) in things Celtic. With all the inaccuracies and
          subjectivities of both hobbies, still it's like a searching out of the
          earlier people.>>

          I've been pointing this out for a long time. The relationship is similar in
          that both involve the cultures of conquered peoples, with most of the terms
          defined by the conquerors -- who choose precisely which aspects of the conquered
          cultures are of interest to them, what their significance is, and how they are
          to be given expression in the dominant culture's art and literature.
          Alexei
        • Stolzi@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:40:12 PM Central Standard Time, ... In that, Longfellow showed good taste. Well, to YOUR linguistic taste, which is formed by
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
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            In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:40:12 PM Central Standard Time,
            dbratman@... writes:
            >"Hiawatha" is actually called Wenabozho. Longfellow liked the Iroquois name
            >better, apparently, and arbitrarily substituted it for the original name.

            In that, Longfellow showed good taste.
            Well, to YOUR linguistic taste, which is formed by neither of the languages
            under discussion, or, one might grant, for a poem in English. Perhaps
            "Wenabozho" sounds exquisite in the ears of an Ojibwa, and "Hiawatha" awkward.



            Diamond Proudbrook


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stolzi@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/3/2003 1:10:05 PM Central Standard Time, ... Algonkian-speaking ... How ethnocentric of them Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
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              In a message dated 12/3/2003 1:10:05 PM Central Standard Time,
              alexeik@... writes:


              >Today it's become fashionable to use the term _Anishinaabe_
              >(literally "normal person"), which can be applied to a number of
              Algonkian-speaking
              >peoples of the Great Lakes area.


              How ethnocentric of them



              Diamond Proudbrook


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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