Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Re: [mythsoc] Heaney's Beowulf or someone's Hiawatha?

Expand Messages
  • alexeik@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/3/3 3:36:08 PM, David Bratman wrote:
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      In a message dated 12/3/3 3:36:08 PM, David Bratman wrote:

      <<A recording of the whole Kalevala read in Finnish might require some
      tracking down and might not be worth the trouble for the merely curious,
      but if you just want an easy way to hear some of it and get some great
      music into the bargain, may I suggest acquiring a CD of Jean Sibelius's
      choral-orchestral suite "Kullervo"? I recommend the Naxos recording
      conducted by Jorma Panula. The booklet has the original text plus
      translation.
      >>

      Another fun recording in the same vein is that of the contemporary Finnish
      composer Einojuhani Rautavaara's oratorio _Sammon ryötsö_ (The Myth of the
      Sampo), which is a setting for vocal soloists, chorus and electronic sounds of the
      section of the _Kalevala_ that deals with the three hero-brothers' expedition
      to Pohjola (Lapland) to obtain the magical object called the Sampo. The music
      is very expressive and well-suited to its legendary subject, besides giving a
      good sense of what the verses of the _Kalevala_ sound like in Finnish. It also
      comes with the original text plus translation.
      Alexei
    • Jack
      greenmanreview.com/book/book_beowulf_criticaledition.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        greenmanreview.com/book/book_beowulf_criticaledition.html

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • alexeik@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/3/3 3:36:08 PM, David Bratman wrote:
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 12/3/3 3:36:08 PM, David Bratman wrote:

          << Ojibwe, a nation I've heard
          >of but I'm not sure where to place them geographically.

          Upper Great Lakes. Usually spelled Ojibwa (which may be why you had
          trouble turning info up on the Web) and now usually known as the Chippewa.
          >>

          "Chippewa" is the form most commonly used in the US, while "Ojibway" is the
          form most commonly used in Canada. Both are approximations of the native form
          _Ojibwe_. Today it's become fashionable to use the term _Anishinaabe_
          (literally "normal person"), which can be applied to a number of Algonkian-speaking
          peoples of the Great Lakes area.
          Alexei
        • alexeik@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, you wrote:
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, you wrote:

            <<LOL I have to admit that I like "Hiawatha" better than "Wenabozho", but
            would one call it good taste or perhaps good judgement of his primarily
            English-speaking audience?>>

            Certainly "Hiawatha" (especially pronounced the familiar English way: the
            actual Iroquois pronunciation would be 'hee-ya-watt-ha") sounds far less bizarre
            to an English-speaking audience than "Wenabozho". Longfellow's choice is
            perfectly reasonable if one assumes that his audience will never have any further
            interest in the culture that serves as the background for the story. For anyone
            who does know something about it, however, the effect is as jarring as, say,
            arbitrarily giving one of the characters in a Chinese story a Japanese name.
            Alexei
          • alexeik@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, Lizzie wrote:
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 12/3/3 2:36:07 PM, Lizzie wrote:

              <<I am wondering lately, in my usual muddy way, whether a Yank interest in
              things Native American would be a similar thing to the English interest
              (occasionally) in things Celtic. With all the inaccuracies and
              subjectivities of both hobbies, still it's like a searching out of the
              earlier people.>>

              I've been pointing this out for a long time. The relationship is similar in
              that both involve the cultures of conquered peoples, with most of the terms
              defined by the conquerors -- who choose precisely which aspects of the conquered
              cultures are of interest to them, what their significance is, and how they are
              to be given expression in the dominant culture's art and literature.
              Alexei
            • Stolzi@aol.com
              In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:40:12 PM Central Standard Time, ... In that, Longfellow showed good taste. Well, to YOUR linguistic taste, which is formed by
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:40:12 PM Central Standard Time,
                dbratman@... writes:
                >"Hiawatha" is actually called Wenabozho. Longfellow liked the Iroquois name
                >better, apparently, and arbitrarily substituted it for the original name.

                In that, Longfellow showed good taste.
                Well, to YOUR linguistic taste, which is formed by neither of the languages
                under discussion, or, one might grant, for a poem in English. Perhaps
                "Wenabozho" sounds exquisite in the ears of an Ojibwa, and "Hiawatha" awkward.



                Diamond Proudbrook


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stolzi@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/3/2003 1:10:05 PM Central Standard Time, ... Algonkian-speaking ... How ethnocentric of them Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 3, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 12/3/2003 1:10:05 PM Central Standard Time,
                  alexeik@... writes:


                  >Today it's become fashionable to use the term _Anishinaabe_
                  >(literally "normal person"), which can be applied to a number of
                  Algonkian-speaking
                  >peoples of the Great Lakes area.


                  How ethnocentric of them



                  Diamond Proudbrook


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.