Re: [mythsoc] TTT - Extended DVD
- I'm neither a linguistics expert, nor have I seen the extended TT yet. But
I can say:
1) For most purposes, Tolkien's "Rohirric" _is_ Old English. There's
something like four words of "genuine" Rohirric hiding in the appendices;
everything you find in the text of the book itself, and in most of the
appendices, is the Mercian dialect of Old English, which is "translated"
Rohirric the same way that the default English is "translated" Common Speech.
2) _Beowulf_ ends with the death and funeral of its protagonist, including
funerary speeches. If you want to call that a dirge, go ahead.
- David Bratman
At 02:45 PM 12/2/2003 , Stolzi@... wrote:
>I have received two communique's concerning the extended DVD of TTT, with the
>statement that Eowyn is seen/heard singing a dirge for Theodred. One person
>called it "positively Beowulfian" and another said that it was "in one of
>Does anyone here know anything about this? I don't seem to recall Tolkien
>ever developing the Rohirric as he did his other languages such as Quenya or
>Dwarvish. Under his "translation of languages" scheme, doesn't Rohirric
>same relation to Westron as Old English does to Modern English? IOW, could
>this dirge actually be in Old English?
>It's been suggested that some lines were actually borrowed from BEOWULF, but
>at this time I don't recall BEOWULF including a dirge - does it?
>Can one of you linguistic types out there enlighten me?
- In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:42:24 PM Central Standard Time,
>the Mercian dialect of Old English, which is "translated"Thank you David, that's the point I was trying to make, expressed clearly by
>Rohirric the same way that the default English is "translated" Common Speech.
>2) _Beowulf_ ends with the death and funeral of its protagonist, includingCertainly there's a funeral, but hmm, I'd have to look up the speeches. I
>funerary speeches. If you want to call that a dirge, go ahead.
didn't think anyone comes on and actually says something like, e.g., the eulogy
to Lancelot in Malory (who says it? Sir Bedivere I think?)
Thanks, Susan, for your
"From watching the extras on the TTTX DVD, I believe the lyrics actually are
Old English. At one point they play a clip of the dirge with OE subtitles
a Modern English translation. My OE is far too rusty for me to be able to
tell if the lines are from Beowulf or not, though."
If you have the chance to note down some of the Modern English lines, I cd
compare them with my electronic text of BEOWULF (currently the only form in
which I own the poem).
Anyway, we've established a lot more than I knew when I started, which is
pleasing. Thanks, people.
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