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Re: [mythsoc] TTT - Extended DVD

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  • David S. Bratman
    I m neither a linguistics expert, nor have I seen the extended TT yet. But I can say: 1) For most purposes, Tolkien s Rohirric _is_ Old English. There s
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 2, 2003
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      I'm neither a linguistics expert, nor have I seen the extended TT yet. But
      I can say:

      1) For most purposes, Tolkien's "Rohirric" _is_ Old English. There's
      something like four words of "genuine" Rohirric hiding in the appendices;
      everything you find in the text of the book itself, and in most of the
      appendices, is the Mercian dialect of Old English, which is "translated"
      Rohirric the same way that the default English is "translated" Common Speech.

      2) _Beowulf_ ends with the death and funeral of its protagonist, including
      funerary speeches. If you want to call that a dirge, go ahead.

      - David Bratman


      At 02:45 PM 12/2/2003 , Stolzi@... wrote:
      >I have received two communique's concerning the extended DVD of TTT, with the
      >statement that Eowyn is seen/heard singing a dirge for Theodred. One person
      >called it "positively Beowulfian" and another said that it was "in one of
      >Tolkien's languages."
      >
      >Does anyone here know anything about this? I don't seem to recall Tolkien
      >ever developing the Rohirric as he did his other languages such as Quenya or
      >Dwarvish. Under his "translation of languages" scheme, doesn't Rohirric
      >bear the
      >same relation to Westron as Old English does to Modern English? IOW, could
      >this dirge actually be in Old English?
      >It's been suggested that some lines were actually borrowed from BEOWULF, but
      >at this time I don't recall BEOWULF including a dirge - does it?
      >
      >Can one of you linguistic types out there enlighten me?
    • Stolzi@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:42:24 PM Central Standard Time, ... Thank you David, that s the point I was trying to make, expressed clearly by you. ...
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 3, 2003
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        In a message dated 12/2/2003 10:42:24 PM Central Standard Time,
        dbratman@... writes:

        >the Mercian dialect of Old English, which is "translated"
        >Rohirric the same way that the default English is "translated" Common Speech.


        Thank you David, that's the point I was trying to make, expressed clearly by
        you.

        >2) _Beowulf_ ends with the death and funeral of its protagonist, including
        >funerary speeches. If you want to call that a dirge, go ahead.

        Certainly there's a funeral, but hmm, I'd have to look up the speeches. I
        didn't think anyone comes on and actually says something like, e.g., the eulogy
        to Lancelot in Malory (who says it? Sir Bedivere I think?)

        Thanks, Susan, for your

        "From watching the extras on the TTTX DVD, I believe the lyrics actually are
        Old English. At one point they play a clip of the dirge with OE subtitles
        and
        a Modern English translation. My OE is far too rusty for me to be able to
        tell if the lines are from Beowulf or not, though."

        If you have the chance to note down some of the Modern English lines, I cd
        compare them with my electronic text of BEOWULF (currently the only form in
        which I own the poem).

        Anyway, we've established a lot more than I knew when I started, which is
        pleasing. Thanks, people.

        Diamond Proudbrook


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      • Stolzi@aol.com
        Rented it today. Will report. Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 4, 2003
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          Rented it today. Will report.




          Diamond Proudbrook


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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