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Re: [mythsoc] Of Sitcom Plots and Pocket Framistans: The Trouble with Rowling...

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  • WendellWag@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/9/2003 4:19:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... I would have been just as bothered by this as a child as I am as an adult. Idiots who didn t
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 9, 2003
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      In a message dated 11/9/2003 4:19:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      darancgrissom@... writes:

      > You are aware these books are intended for children...right? . . . (Also
      > finishing the book might help).

      I would have been just as bothered by this as a child as I am as an adult.
      Idiots who didn't listen to other people bothered me then just as much as it
      does now. And I have read dutifully every word of every book so far, so please
      don't harass me about finishing the books. I'm in the middle of reading it.
      I've just paused in this book long enough to write this post. The problems
      I've mentioned have bothered me right from the beginning of the first book.

      Wendell Wagner


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jamcconney@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:57:08 AM Central Standard Time, ... In the best of all possible worlds--yes. But in this world the fight is often to get them to
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 9, 2003
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        In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:57:08 AM Central Standard Time,
        juliet@... writes:

        > if we as adults provide them
        > with good quality literature from a young age, they will, like Wendell,
        > be bothered by the shortcomings of literature containing glaring oversights.
        > If they're not bothered, we can blame ourselves as adults for not exposing
        > them to enough higher quality literature.
        >

        In the best of all possible worlds--yes. But in this world the fight is often
        to get them to read at all. It's better IMHO to let them find out that
        reading is FUN and gradually move on to recognizing good and bad--it's what happened
        to me and to everyone I know who loves literature (I shudder at some of the
        things I thought were good back then). I honestly think kids read what they
        need to read--I mean they seem to know what they're ready for, much more than the
        adults in their lives, however close and wise these may be. Don't worry--good
        taste will come.

        Anne


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • The Yeti !
        ... children...right? . . . (Also ... an adult. ... much as it ... far, so please ... reading it. ... problems ... first book. ... If you start a discussion,
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 9, 2003
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          --- In mythsoc@yahoogroups.com, WendellWag@a... wrote:
          > In a message dated 11/9/2003 4:19:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          > darancgrissom@s... writes:
          >
          > > You are aware these books are intended for
          children...right? . . . (Also
          > > finishing the book might help).
          >
          > I would have been just as bothered by this as a child as I am as
          an adult.
          > Idiots who didn't listen to other people bothered me then just as
          much as it
          > does now. And I have read dutifully every word of every book so
          far, so please
          > don't harass me about finishing the books. I'm in the middle of
          reading it.
          > I've just paused in this book long enough to write this post. The
          problems
          > I've mentioned have bothered me right from the beginning of the
          first book.
          >
          > Wendell Wagner

          If you start a discussion, you shouldn't be surprised when people
          argue a point with you !

          Anyway, the books are (at least to start with) aimed at children. As
          such its a common theme that adults are stupid while the kids are
          smart. I'm sure someone could list a hundred or so kid's books where
          this is the case. Rowling ain't the first, and she's ain't going to
          be the last.

          Yeti.
        • Stolzi@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/9/2003 10:39:37 AM Central Standard Time, ... Same here. I have just been re-reading Vol I and I think it is so successful (w/me at
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 9, 2003
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            In a message dated 11/9/2003 10:39:37 AM Central Standard Time,
            dbratman@... writes:


            > the
            > repetitiousness is beginning to get to me.
            >

            Same here.

            I have just been re-reading Vol I and I think it is so successful (w/me at
            least) BECAUSE you're being introduced to all these strange, new, and (often)
            funny things which later will just be part of Stock In Trade.

            I was absolutely exhilarated when Hagrid burst through the door of The Little
            House on the Island and was described. It's not the first time we've seen
            him, but he comes into focus much more vividly, and I recalled at that moment
            what a pleasure it was to get to know him back in 1997 when Rowling's world was
            all new to us. (And he's one of my favorite characters in the books, anyway.)


            Diamond Proudbrook


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stolzi@aol.com
            In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:56:54 AM Central Standard Time, ... A friend was quoting PETER RABBIT to me just the other day (seems there s been a wonderful
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 9, 2003
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              In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:56:54 AM Central Standard Time,
              juliet@... writes:


              > when
              > people think that books intended for children need not adhere to the same
              > standards of quality as those intended for adults.

              A friend was quoting PETER RABBIT to me just the other day (seems there's
              been a wonderful exhibit of original Potter - Beatrix that is! - paintings and
              ms. in Toronto lately, which she got to see) - anyway, I was struck by Beatrix
              Potter's refusal to condescend to her audience.

              Peter got stuck and was in grave danger of capture -

              "his sobs were overheard by some friendly sparrows, who flew to him in great
              excitement, and implored him to exert himself."


              What modern Children's Book Editor would let that stand?



              Diamond Proudbrook



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Carl F. Hostetter
              ... Wendell never said Rowling was the first to do this. In fact, his point was exactly that this tired trope is become such an obvious and lazy cliche that a
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 9, 2003
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                On Nov 9, 2003, at 8:15 PM, The Yeti ! wrote:

                > If you start a discussion, you shouldn't be surprised when people
                > argue a point with you !

                That's fine, if people will only argue the _actual_ point. For example:

                > Anyway, the books are (at least to start with) aimed at children. As
                > such its a common theme that adults are stupid while the kids are
                > smart. I'm sure someone could list a hundred or so kid's books where
                > this is the case. Rowling ain't the first, and she's ain't going to be
                > the last.

                Wendell never said Rowling was the first to do this. In fact, his point
                was exactly that this tired trope is become such an obvious and lazy
                cliche that a writer should know better than to haul it out yet again.

                And personally, I daresay that constantly portraying adults as stupid
                does kids no favor. Quite the opposite.
              • darancgrissom@sbcglobal.net
                Forgive me if I caused offense by my comments, I meant none. I truncated much of what I wished to say, and refrained from specifics about the most recent book
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 10, 2003
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                  Forgive me if I caused offense by my comments, I meant none. I truncated
                  much of what I wished to say, and refrained from specifics about the most
                  recent book so as not to spoil it. Some of the concerns expressed in the
                  original post are directly addressed in the last half of the book. If, as
                  has been expressed by subsequent posts, you would have found some the
                  plotlines just as annoying as a child as you do now, please understand that
                  I would not have. Up until my own adolescence my favorite books were Tom
                  Swift books. Regardless of that I believe that there are few devices a
                  writer can use to invoke strong emotion in children, one of which is the
                  frustration of being ignored by adults, or more precisely the "perception"
                  that they are being ignored by adults. Since emotion is the best way of
                  keeping attention, especially in the young, I find Rowlings use of this
                  device completely acceptable. I would just like to end by clarifying that I
                  believe the largest problem for adults reading the Potter series is one of
                  experience not of quality. For a child keeping the emotional kinetic from
                  one wonder to the next is of paramount importance.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: WendellWag@... [mailto:WendellWag@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 3:36 AM
                  To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Of Sitcom Plots and Pocket Framistans: The Trouble
                  with Rowling...


                  In a message dated 11/9/2003 4:19:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  darancgrissom@... writes:

                  > You are aware these books are intended for children...right? . . . (Also
                  > finishing the book might help).

                  I would have been just as bothered by this as a child as I am as an adult.
                  Idiots who didn't listen to other people bothered me then just as much as
                  it
                  does now. And I have read dutifully every word of every book so far, so
                  please
                  don't harass me about finishing the books. I'm in the middle of reading
                  it.
                  I've just paused in this book long enough to write this post. The
                  problems
                  I've mentioned have bothered me right from the beginning of the first
                  book.

                  Wendell Wagner


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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