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Shippey's Road

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  • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
    I am reading Shippey s Road for the first time, and finding it just a completely profound experience. It is frustrating to be reading it alone, when on every
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 1, 2003
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      I am reading Shippey's Road for the first time, and finding it just a
      completely profound experience. It is frustrating to be reading it alone,
      when on every page there are things that would be so delightful to discuss
      with someone. I think I will have to turn it over and read it again when I
      am done. Is Prof. Shippey still hale and teaching, that I could write to
      him?

      I used to scoff inside when I would hear of college courses about Tolkien,
      but now I rather wouldn't mind taking a few myself. Not so much to study
      the races of Men and Elves and such, but the landscape of history and
      language and stuff that Shippey is speaking of in this book. It's a
      matter of opinion how often he is on target in terms of Tolkien's thoughts,
      sure, but the landscape is there to be learned and enjoyed regardless.

      Whatever happened to philology, anyway? It is different from today's
      linguistics, right?

      And on an only partly unrelated note, I think that today's New Age etc.
      movement (including mainstream crystal tchotchkes) is spookily parallel to
      the Victorian interest in the arcane. Has that been covered somewhere that
      I could read about it?

      I know that raising children is important work. But oh how I sometimes
      envy those who have time to read and think and finish a thought.

      Lizzie Triano
      lizziewriter@...
      amor vincit omnia
    • alexeik@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/1/3 5:07:44 PM, Lizzie wrote:
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 11/1/3 5:07:44 PM, Lizzie wrote:

        <<Whatever happened to philology, anyway? It is different from today's
        linguistics, right?>>

        It's a branch of linguistics, and today it's rarely called by that name. It's
        the study of the way past stages of languages have been attested through
        texts, and nowadays it's usually considered an aspect of historical linguistics.
        Alexei
      • WendellWag@aol.com
        In a message dated 11/1/2003 12:07:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... The people that did philology were probably halfway between the people today who do
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 1, 2003
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          In a message dated 11/1/2003 12:07:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          lizziewriter@... writes:

          > Whatever happened to philology, anyway? It is different from today's
          > linguistics, right?
          >
          > [Some stuff snipped]
          >
          > I know that raising children is important work. But oh how I sometimes
          > envy those who have time to read and think and finish a thought.
          >

          The people that did philology were probably halfway between the people today
          who do classics and other ancient languages and the ones who do historical
          linguistics. Today you have to choose whether to study a particular ancient
          language or to study the theory of how languages change over time, but then it
          wasn't divided that way. Linguistics got organized as a subject for academic
          study by coming together of the people who studied ancient languages, modern
          languages, anthropology, psychology, and logic because they had decided they had a
          common subject to investigate. (Not all those people got together at once.
          In approximately the order that I listed them, the subjects came together to
          form linguistics.)

          Kids grow up eventually. You could go back to school if you want.

          Wendell Wagner


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
          It s a branch of linguistics, and today it s rarely called by that name. It s the study of the way past stages of languages have been attested through texts,
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 1, 2003
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            It's a branch of linguistics, and today it's rarely called by that name.
            It's
            the study of the way past stages of languages have been attested through
            texts, and nowadays it's usually considered an aspect of historical
            linguistics. >>

            Thank you, Alexei. So there is always a sense of change, life, or growth
            in this concept?

            << The people that did philology were probably halfway between the people
            today
            who do classics and other ancient languages and the ones who do historical
            linguistics. Today you have to choose whether to study a particular ancient
            language or to study the theory of how languages change over time, but then
            it
            wasn't divided that way. Linguistics got organized as a subject for
            academic
            study by coming together of the people who studied ancient languages,
            modern
            languages, anthropology, psychology, and logic because they had decided
            they had a
            common subject to investigate. (Not all those people got together at once.
            In approximately the order that I listed them, the subjects came together
            to
            form linguistics.) >>

            Ow, Wendell, that makes my head hurt! I mean, thank you. There is a lot
            of work in these subjects, and I don't want to imagine how much
            fractiousness. I don't think I would have made a good scholar, but I
            enjoy reading Shippey. It's hard to describe, but the effect I am getting
            is probably similar to what they call a paradigm shift -- it's like
            suddenly realizing that the earth's axis is tilted. The more examples he
            gives of texts, the more I wish to sit in for a lecture series and extended
            reading. But I fear that popular writing is about the limit of my
            abilities. It's amazing to think how much has been gleaned from the
            primary sources we have had to go on, and then of course so much of it is
            theory that changes over time.

            Come to think of it, I have had heady experiences from other books. It's
            just been a while. lol

            Kids grow up eventually. You could go back to school if you want. >>

            Perhaps. There seemed little application to balance the immense financial
            outlay when I was first considering it. Graduate school, I mean. For a
            number of years I dreamed of returning to study Medieval French, but quite
            frankly, modern French was challenging enough. I'd have sunk. The world
            is such a huge place, and layer it with the many worlds there have been,
            and the many views of those worlds, and the courses of study are so endless
            as to be overwhelming. Yet how often, in the world outside of academia,
            does any value, or even yearning, seem to be placed towards such study ?

            I like some of what Shippey handles about luck and such; I'm a bit
            superstitious that way myself. So perhaps there is hope. After all, one
            likes to think that Mom and Dad didn't spend all that money on my education
            for nothing, that what potential I may have will not go entirely to waste.

            Lizzie Triano
            lizziewriter@...
            amor vincit omnia
          • Jane Bigelow
            ... money on my education for nothing, that what potential I may have will not go entirely to waste. ... Lizzie, Most of the people in my library school class
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 1, 2003
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              At 05:07 PM 11/1/03 -0500, you wrote:
              >>
              >
              >> After all, one likes to think that Mom and Dad didn't spend all that
              money on my education for nothing, that what potential I may have will not
              go entirely to waste.
              >
              > Lizzie Triano
              > lizziewriter@...
              > amor vincit omnia
              >
              Lizzie,

              Most of the people in my library school class were over thirty, some of us
              quite a lot over. I was much too busy to fret about turnign forty. Also,
              I've worked with students as a librarian, and some of the best I
              encountered were returning students. I don't have children myself, but
              from observing my friends I'd say that it gives you an advanced course in
              time management! You may find yourself a better scholar when you return.
              Don't give up!

              Jane
            • WendellWag@aol.com
              In a message dated 11/1/2003 12:07:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... It appears so. Here s his academic homepage:
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 1, 2003
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                In a message dated 11/1/2003 12:07:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                lizziewriter@... writes:

                > Is Prof. Shippey still hale and teaching, that I could write to
                > him?

                It appears so. Here's his academic homepage:

                <A HREF="http://www.slu.edu/colleges/AS/ENG/faculty/shippey.html">http://www.slu.edu/colleges/AS/ENG/faculty/shippey.html</A>

                Wendell Wagner


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
                It appears so. Here s his academic homepage: Thank you, Wendell. St Louis, as in Missouri? That is closer than Oxford, if less fun to visit and about as
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 2, 2003
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                  It appears so. Here's his academic homepage: >>

                  Thank you, Wendell. St Louis, as in Missouri? That is closer than Oxford,
                  if less fun to visit and about as likely for a commute. I will keep
                  looking around the website and see if they have special events or lectures
                  on tape.

                  The closest college here is Western Connecticut State University, and it
                  does have some good courses. Fordham has delicious offerings, but it's
                  rather far for regular commuting.

                  Thank you, Jane, for the good observations earlier. How many folks onlist
                  have gone back to college post-kids? Have you found that your minds were
                  different? I seem to have developed at least some of the critical thinking
                  I lacked, but I still need to learn basic rhetoric (hence the rambling
                  emails) and the ability to draw my own conclusions. Well, perhaps first I
                  should go to E.W. Scripps School of Journalism, if Michael Bugeja is still
                  there. I've long been a fan of his (I'm not sure if he still does a poetry
                  or poetics column in Writer's Digest magazine, but he used to).

                  Lizzie Triano
                  lizziewriter@...
                  amor vincit omnia
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