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Re: Oh Peter, Peter, Peter Beagle...

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  • ERATRIANO@xxx.xxx
    In a message dated 01/01/2000 8:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Stolzi@aol.com writes:
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 1, 2000
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      In a message dated 01/01/2000 8:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      Stolzi@... writes:

      << I will say no more for fear of spoilers, but I am

      Disappointed, >>
      ARGH and I usually love Beagle but I think I may pass on TAMSIN ... thanks
      for the warning

      lizzie
    • Staci Dumoski
      ... Hmmm. The only thing I recall disappointed by in TAMSIN was that it had to end. Maybe it s because I m a non-believer, but I didn t see any theological
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 2, 2000
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        On Sat, 1 Jan 2000 Stolzi@... wrote:

        > ....Why did he have to mess up an otherwise smashing conclusion to TAMSIN by
        > unnecessarily trashing the God of Heaven... my God, Lewis' God, Tolkien's
        > God, and indeed the God of Jenny Gluckstein, heroine of the novel (even if
        > she doesn't believe in Him)?

        Hmmm. The only thing I recall disappointed by in TAMSIN was that it had
        to end. Maybe it's because I'm a non-believer, but I didn't see any
        theological smashing going on there. Could you provide some page numbers,
        at least, so I can see what must have sailed right over my head?

        Also, just because an author expresses a point of view that you don't
        necessarily agree with doens't mean the work has no worth. I and many
        other non-christians I know still find the Chronicles of Narnia a
        beautiful (and, yes, inspirational) story.

        Staci Ann Dumoski Phantastes
        Editor and Publisher "The Fantasy Writer's Guide"
        editor@... http://www.phantastes.com/

        Fall 1999 Issue Now Online!
      • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 1/2/00 7:01:06 PM Central Standard Time, ... Certainly not. I saw a lot of worth in TAMSIN. More in private e-mail. Mary S
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 2, 2000
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          In a message dated 1/2/00 7:01:06 PM Central Standard Time,
          unicorn@... writes:

          > Also, just because an author expresses a point of view that you don't
          > necessarily agree with doens't mean the work has no worth.

          Certainly not. I saw a lot of worth in TAMSIN.

          More in private e-mail.

          Mary S
        • Matthew Winslow
          ... I had this problem with the book, also. Matter a fact, I almost chucked it before finishing. Writing now from the other side of the back cover (yes, I
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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            Stolzi@... [Stolzi@...] wrote:
            > But didn't you find that it took a long time starting? This was one of the
            > few criticisms that I - and many reader-reviewers on amazon.com - had. Too
            > much background, too much rambling in the (startlingly accurate) voice of the
            > teen girl narrator. Too long before they get to the farm and the
            > strangenesses begin to appear.

            I had this problem with the book, also. Matter'a'fact, I almost chucked it
            before finishing. Writing now from the other side of the back cover (yes, I
            finished it), I see that all that set up had a purpose, but that doesn't help
            one having to wade through it for the first time. Contrary to its title, the
            book is about Jennifer, so Beagle creates her as a real character before
            'sidetracking' (as it were) with the actual storyline. Still, it makes for
            some rough reading for the first third of the book. I expect this one'll end
            up on the MFA long list, if not the short list.

            --
            Matthew Winslow mwinslow@... http://x-real.firinn.org/
            "I want to overhear passionate arguments about what we are and what we are
            doing and what we ought to do. I want to feel that art is an utterance made
            in good faith by one human being to another. I want to believe there are
            geniuses scheming to astonish the rest of us, just for the pleasure of it.
            I miss civilization, and I want it back."
            --Marilynne Robinson
            Currently reading: Pharaohs and Kings by David Rohl
          • Stolzi@aol.com
            In a message dated 1/2/00 7:01:06 PM Central Standard Time, ... But didn t you find that it took a long time starting? This was one of the few criticisms that
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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              In a message dated 1/2/00 7:01:06 PM Central Standard Time,
              unicorn@... writes:

              > The only thing I recall disappointed by in TAMSIN was that it had
              > to end.

              But didn't you find that it took a long time starting? This was one of the
              few criticisms that I - and many reader-reviewers on amazon.com - had. Too
              much background, too much rambling in the (startlingly accurate) voice of the
              teen girl narrator. Too long before they get to the farm and the
              strangenesses begin to appear.

              Mary S
            • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
              It was interesting to read TAMSIN right after finishing Susan Cooper s juvenile, THE BOGGART. Very similar subjects, but one handled in a kiddy manner, the
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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                It was interesting to read TAMSIN right after finishing Susan Cooper's
                juvenile, THE BOGGART. Very similar subjects, but one handled in a kiddy
                manner, the other SO much more mature, more depth, more poesy... I was also
                pleased to see that Beagle, having written two recent books set in an
                imaginary world of his own (INNKEEPER'S SONG), can also very competently
                people our =own= world with fantasy beings.

                Mary S
              • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
                In a message dated 1/3/00 11:16:14 AM Central Standard Time, ... Imnsho, he didn t need to spend that much time on it. And the little rambling verbal asides
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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                  In a message dated 1/3/00 11:16:14 AM Central Standard Time,
                  mwinslow@... writes:

                  > Beagle creates her as a real character before
                  > 'sidetracking' (as it were) with the actual storyline.

                  Imnsho, he didn't need to spend that much time on it. And the little
                  rambling verbal asides meant to establish Jenny's character and her
                  "realness" were so over-frequent that I was almost at the point of yelling at
                  the book, "Shut UP, girl!" :)

                  An interesting exercise wd be to xerox those first chapters and go at them
                  with a blue-pencil, see how much really NEEDS to be there to do the
                  establishing.

                  And again I say -- "How did Evan meet Sally in the first place?"

                  Had I been editing it, too, Sally would have been "Mom." There's too many
                  names and roles to keep straight, what with Jenny's NYC friends, and her UK
                  friend we've not even =met= yet, "Meena," whom she keeps referring to...
                  Even though the kind of girl Jenny is might well call her mother "Sally,"
                  "Mom" would have placed her and put her in her role with much less effort for
                  the reader.

                  In Susan Cooper's THE BOGGART, I had the same trouble with daughter Emily and
                  mother Maggie. ("Which one is it this time!?!?") That one's told in the
                  third person, though. If Maggie had been referred to as "Mrs..." more often,
                  it would have helped. I think it's all right to call such a character
                  "Mother" or "Mrs" when the book is so definitely a juvenile, and Maggie is so
                  definitely married. But I suppose authors are scared of running into the
                  whole Mrs/Ms problem.

                  Mary S
                • Mary Kay Kare
                  ... As another country heard from, I quite enjoyed TAMSIN. I was amazed and delighted at how Beagle got into the mind of a teen-age girl. And I don t even
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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                    ERATRIANO@... wrote:

                    > From: ERATRIANO@...
                    >
                    > In a message dated 01/01/2000 8:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    > Stolzi@... writes:
                    >
                    > << I will say no more for fear of spoilers, but I am
                    >
                    > Disappointed, >>
                    > ARGH and I usually love Beagle but I think I may pass on TAMSIN ... thanks
                    > for the warning
                    >

                    As another country heard from, I quite enjoyed TAMSIN. I was amazed and
                    delighted at how Beagle got into the mind of a teen-age girl. And I don't
                    even like ghost stories. Usually. But nothing about Peter Beagle is usual...

                    MK
                  • Mary Kay Kare
                    ... Interesting. I didn t have any trouble at all with the beginning being slow. ONe of the things I enjoy most about fiction is getting to know people I d
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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                      Stolzi@... wrote:

                      > From: Stolzi@...
                      >
                      > In a message dated 1/3/00 11:16:14 AM Central Standard Time,
                      > mwinslow@... writes:
                      >
                      > > Beagle creates her as a real character before
                      > > 'sidetracking' (as it were) with the actual storyline.
                      >
                      > Imnsho, he didn't need to spend that much time on it. And the little
                      > rambling verbal asides meant to establish Jenny's character and her
                      > "realness" were so over-frequent that I was almost at the point of yelling at
                      > the book, "Shut UP, girl!" :)
                      >
                      > An interesting exercise wd be to xerox those first chapters and go at them
                      > with a blue-pencil, see how much really NEEDS to be there to do the
                      > establishing.

                      Interesting. I didn't have any trouble at all with the beginning being slow.
                      ONe of the things I enjoy most about fiction is getting to know people I'd
                      otherwise never encounter. And that's what we were doing with the long
                      beginning. I guess I just liked hanging ou? with those people and wasn't
                      waiting imaptiently for the 'fantasy' to start.

                      > And again I say -- "How did Evan meet Sally in the first place?"

                      Well, gee, maybe he just liked hanging out with musicians. I do it a lot and I
                      was (when I worked) a librarian. I have a vague memory that he was in the US on
                      business and they met somehow through the musical connection.

                      > Had I been editing it, too, Sally would have been "Mom." There's too many
                      > names and roles to keep straight, what with Jenny's NYC friends, and her UK
                      > friend we've not even =met= yet, "Meena," whom she keeps referring to...
                      > Even though the kind of girl Jenny is might well call her mother "Sally,"
                      > "Mom" would have placed her and put her in her role with much less effort for
                      > the reader.
                      >
                      > In Susan Cooper's THE BOGGART, I had the same trouble with daughter Emily and
                      > mother Maggie. ("Which one is it this time!?!?") That one's told in the
                      > third person, though. If Maggie had been referred to as "Mrs..." more often,
                      > it would have helped. I think it's all right to call such a character
                      > "Mother" or "Mrs" when the book is so definitely a juvenile, and Maggie is so
                      > definitely married. But I suppose authors are scared of running into the
                      > whole Mrs/Ms problem.
                      >

                      I didn't have this problem with TAMSIN but I know what you mean. The book I
                      most recently had that happen with was Pat Murphy's THERE AND BACK AGAIN. I
                      couldn't keep the sibs straight, but then, I couldn't keep the dwarves straight
                      in THE HOBBIT either. Still have trouble after all the re-readings in the past
                      30+ years.
                      MK
                    • Berni Phillips
                      ... Yes, it took too long to get to the farm. I was rather dismayed at the actions of the narrator while she was in New York. With her drug use and disdain
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 3, 2000
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                        Stolzi@... wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Stolzi@...
                        >
                        > In a message dated 1/2/00 7:01:06 PM Central Standard Time,
                        > unicorn@... writes:
                        >
                        > > The only thing I recall disappointed by in TAMSIN was that it had
                        > > to end.
                        >
                        > But didn't you find that it took a long time starting? This was one of the
                        > few criticisms that I - and many reader-reviewers on amazon.com - had. Too
                        > much background, too much rambling in the (startlingly accurate) voice of the
                        > teen girl narrator. Too long before they get to the farm and the
                        > strangenesses begin to appear.
                        >
                        > Mary S

                        Yes, it took too long to get to the farm. I was rather dismayed at the
                        actions of the narrator while she was in New York. With her drug use
                        and disdain for authority, she was headed in the wrong direction. I
                        shudder to think what might have become of her if her mother hadn't
                        taken her to Britain. I certainly was uninterested in the character in
                        those early chapters.

                        Berni
                      • Stolzi@xxx.xxx
                        In a message dated 1/3/00 8:59:05 PM Central Standard Time, ... Where, as best I recall, she never even tried to get a connection or to light up. Does this
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 4, 2000
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                          In a message dated 1/3/00 8:59:05 PM Central Standard Time,
                          bernip@... writes:

                          > With her drug use
                          > and disdain for authority, she was headed in the wrong direction. I
                          > shudder to think what might have become of her if her mother hadn't
                          > taken her to Britain.

                          Where, as best I recall, she never even tried to get a connection or to
                          light up. Does this mean that tougher schoolwork, hard field work, or being
                          entertained by ghosts (I'm not sure which) removes the desire for weed? :)

                          Mary S
                        • Mary Kay Kare
                          ... I didn t find her occasional marijuana use, or disdain for authority, particularly disturbing or even noteworthy for a teen-ager living in NYC in the late
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 8, 2000
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                            Stolzi@... wrote:

                            > From: Stolzi@...
                            >
                            > In a message dated 1/3/00 8:59:05 PM Central Standard Time,
                            > bernip@... writes:
                            >
                            > > With her drug use
                            > > and disdain for authority, she was headed in the wrong direction. I
                            > > shudder to think what might have become of her if her mother hadn't
                            > > taken her to Britain.
                            >
                            > Where, as best I recall, she never even tried to get a connection or to
                            > light up. Does this mean that tougher schoolwork, hard field work, or being
                            > entertained by ghosts (I'm not sure which) removes the desire for weed? :)
                            >

                            I didn't find her occasional marijuana use, or disdain for authority,
                            particularly disturbing or even noteworthy for a teen-ager living in NYC in the
                            late 90's. I do sort of wonder what explains the total lack of interest in a
                            little pot once she gets to England. Perhaps a different social milieu and all
                            those adjustments?

                            MK
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